Always easy to talk about players who walked away, not thinking about what'd happen if Mists continued this atrocious idea that you should be able to cap a characters progression for a week in 1-2 hours of doing 5man content and a LFR run. Mists still award those people, but no. Not to the same extent as 4.3 did.
You should really look up some 4.3 threads, because this is just disconnected from reality. Tabards made dungeons too rewarding. Dungeons added over time made you have less variance. Instant catch up made people bored out of their minds. But hey, I'm still seeing plenty of catch up mechanics in Mists. They're just not instant. And again, the backlash of 4.3 was so great that they did such a big change in Mists. Nope, it's not working for everyone, but damn if there's anything I can say with absolute certainty, it's that if Mists continued like 4.3, the exodus of players would be tremendous.Tabards were a good thing. Instant catch-up and new dungeons was a good thing. In fact virtually all of the casual friendly systems in cataclysm were a GOOD THING except for a small but apparently vocal minority of players who play one guy and want to spend like 20-30 hours a week on that one guy. If that means that guy is put out well to bad. It's a far better business decision and IMHO a far better game design decision to put that guy out and offer the variety that comes with playing lots of alts.
I have never understood how an expansion that keeps people busy, instead of making them cap a character in an hour, can be regarded as a colossal failure. Then again, what patch or expansion hasn't been called a colossal failure in some regard. Yup, that includes BC.Mists is a colossal failure and it was all centered around giving YOU (once again that same group) something to do when for the most part it wasn't necessary. Most of those players who play more than 20-30 hours are so hopelessly addicted they'd just do the content on alts and be satisfied with it.
MoP has its issues. 4.3 was a clusterfuck.
Active WoW player Jan 2006 - Aug 2020
Occasional WoW Classic Andy since.
Nothing lasts forever, as they say.
But at least I can casually play Classic and remember when MMORPGs were good.
PvP.
First unbalanced in such extremes that even i was surprised as a playing this game since TBC came out.
Secondly, its farming attidude and there is somehow absolutely nothing to do except farming conquest points and you even get elite gear by that lame way.
Third, RBGs are still not fun to play.
Forth, they failed BIG time in bringing back open pvp as they promised for MOP.
Feels like Blizzard developers turned into lying politicans.
oh yeah alt friendlyness was lacking, too.
Hm the story did not work for me. i expected a big clash of Horde vs Alliance i got betrayed with a stupid civil war. Can't Garrosh not just get an accident or assassinated and we move on?
Dailies and CRZ. Ok, CRZ was not that bad idea, but brought so many lvl 90 noobs (both Horde and Alliance) to low level zones which made leveling alts painful. There were some were some good fights in Outland against same or +/-3 level, but in 90% lvl 90 appears and 1 shot you.
Sorry I misread what you said. Thought you said "what about casuals".
But I don't think guilds are what make or break subs or the community because WotLK had an insane amount of community involvement despite not promoting guilds all that much. But I guess it could be argued that's where and WHY the decline began.
Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfangi7-6700 @2.8GHz | Nvidia GTX 960M | 16GB DDR4-2400MHz | 1 TB Toshiba SSD| Dell XPS 15
also pvp, this is perhaps been the worst expansion for pvp balance.
dragonmaw - EU
Everything was perfect until 5.3. It has got to be the worst patch ever with it's boring Barrens "event" and it's terrible weekly quest being all there is after finishing the 3 or 4 lead ups. Even the rewards are boring. They would have been much better off with a series of dailies like the previous patches. At least then , you'd have a reason to log in every day.
The only other bad thing was that legendary quest requiring 6000 valor to finish. It should have been no more than 3000 from the beginning . It put me and others way behind in the legendary line. Now I'm working on the Secrets of the Empire drops and they need to drop more often. One every LFR is not enough.
Other than those two things, MoP has been great and I don't get why people have left. There will be an upsurge in subs when 5.4 goes live but how long it lasts is anyone's guess.
Desktop ------------------------------- Laptop- Asus ROG Zephyrus G14
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Oh, I agree completely! This is why I love Flex raiding. It brings all of the social aspects of raiding back, where LFR had taken them away. I'm curious, though. Did you find 10 man Normal to be too challenging to "get together with people week after week, building social capital"? I don't feel that this is exclusive to Heroic raiding.
This is most likely true. People assume that all casuals want to hop in and do a raid and collect some loot with minimal effort. BLizz gave that. Didn't work. That's because those types of players are vastly overexaggerated. I'm a casual player. And I have absolutely no problem with not being able to do something. I will never kill H Lei Shen. And that's totally fine by me. There are plenty of people like me. People assume Casual="I have to be able to always kill something and get loot for a minimal amount of time/effort". And that's false. There are people that play only to raid. They have good progress, but when raiding is done, they are logged off. Those people aren't hardcore to me. And the person who never raids or pvp's that plays 24/7 but likes to call themself a casual, doesn't fit either.
Where the game went wrong was when it got greedy. People like to throw out "Rese tintered derpslasses" when talking about vanilla and BC, but then WoW was a game of exploration and PLAYER CREATED CONTENT. The player created content is long gone. But in the days of Tarren Mill/Southshore, kiting bosses to SW or Org, taking over a city for a day, those kinds of things are what made the game really cool. But since everything is about convenience now, you don't need to get a group of people together except for making an ICC25 transmog run. Other than that, you sit in SW or Org and wait for your Q. And a big part of the game dying is the dying of the mmo part of the rpg. In classic it mattered shit if you raided. Getting to max level was the end game. You thought you were hot shit if you were at 50. And that was fine. Because there was alot to do.
But now, because Blizz dug this hole of convenience, it's time for them to lie in it. Because for as nice as it is to hit a button and join other players in a dungeon or a raid, it destroys the community aspect of the game. That is why Swtor fought so hard to leave LFD out of the game. They eventually put it in in a desperate attempt to get people to play, but the game still died. But even they knew that was bad for the game.
I'm not saying some convenience isn't healthy. But too much is deadly. And today you don't even have to talk to another person in game if you don't want to. And that shouldn't be what an mmo is about. WoW had a really, really, really good run. But it's coming to an end. And nothing they do will stop that.
for me at least I didn't have 9 fully geared alts because I wanted them...I was so god damn bored I either do that or quit the game. Cata near the end there was the time I could have walked away from the game and never come back. buuuuuut with MoP and the annual pass I had to have some reason to keep playing, my guild nuked DS so most either had numerous alt runs or just quit tell MoP, Alts were the one thing that at the least killed time for me. thats all it did, fill up time until the next Expac. THERE, an argument. it's not a criticism of having alts it's a criticism of the lack of end game that was in Cata.
Last edited by Sky High; 2013-07-27 at 10:30 PM.
Its not alt friendly, you dont have any good catchup mechanism like in tbc, wrath, cata and the biggest problem of faildaria is the amounts of bugs reached a new high ...
Interestingly, both wotlk and cata had 2 different starting zones to level for alts. And people can critize cata all they want, but the level expierence was by far the best out of all expansions. There was so much diversity there. The sad thing is however, this game is totally endgame focused, so these beautiful zones and quests in cata are trivial in the big picture. Blizz failed right here.
Rare mobs and treasure hunts led max lvl players back to old zones in mists, but those zones are hardly as spectacular as the cata zones, i like a continent and diverse zones, so in that regard outland was the best idea they ever had so far.
Another outland host of zones with ideas of cata backed in, and more endgame content in those zones will make the game world quite better, oh, and 2 different starting zones, would be nice.
The idea that everyone has to do everything really made everything feel...not special. I wasn't that particularly hardcore in vanilla, but the fact that the world had all these parts that you wouldn't see immediately but instead would see EVENTUALLY in your journey was really awesome. It really added a sense of adventure.
In MoP, everyone does everything as soon as it comes out. There are no alternate routes, no deviation, no divergance, no doing things in whatever order you happen to do them, just the same linear path for everyone for everything.
"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
"Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"
You gear up then if you want to be competitive in PVE you need to do the legendary line.
Any person worth his weight with a meta will blow away (spell dps wise) anyone without it.
Even with the nerfs I'm on the meta part of the quest for my ALT. I have 4 out of 20 of the Secrets in one week. I GOT LUCKY. A buddy in my guild working his alt got 1, the guaranteed one off of Lei Shen. 4 a week will still take me FIVE WEEKS to complete it ON MY ALT.
Cata was friendly because you ran LFR, got the gear. Ran Normals, got the gear. IF you kept going you went into Heroics and got the gear then you were good to go.
Now the legendary if almost required if you or your alts want to be taken seriously and honestly if you don't feel the same way then you don't need to be responding to this thread and go back and run LFR to your little hearts content.
I think blizzards claim that there catch up mechanism is that of scenarios - dungeons then LFR.
This just strikes me as sloppy, really sloppy, given how previous expansions had some kind of catch up mechanism with new dungeons.
and considering kosak himself said he wished there were more dungeons, including that of recent content, proves how much of a mistake it was.
Its such a simply but very effective concept. Dungeons give items you need to gear up, add a couple of new dungeons in for catch up, and thats all, its worked perfectly fine last three expacks.
Also, am I the only one who thinks scenarios should be once only features we don't have to grind, but in beating them we can choose a reward for an upgrade instead of a random box drop, and keep them as 1 man only.
#boycottchina
To me, it is the pathetic attempts to steal our time. Every basic action, which in no way defines any gameplay, steals a portion of time for the reason of plain stealing a portion of time. Double gating rewards. Ten minutes spend for flying to raid summoning stone. Ten minutes spend for flying to item vendor. Horrible idiotic currency caps.
I do realise that Blizz wants to conquer time-paying asian market, but for me this kind of forced wasting my time is annoying beyond limits.
Also, I think they are making (and still continue to make it) a huge mistake when they start breaking community into smaller groups. Instead of giving a content for 5 people, they are focusing on content for three/one. Instead of making an Ulduar-style one raid difficulty with hard modes actively enabled by players themselves, they make four copies of the same instance. While it is comforting for lots of people to have their own little niche, dividing a community is never a good thing.
And I should mention the story being just bad in general. What even worse, with every patch it becomes more and more illogical and childish.
Well, let's hope it is not too late for Blizz to start making things right
Interesting. Hopefully Flex helps that situation out if for no reason other than as a stepping stone.
Convenience does not make a game fun. Convenience leads to boredom. Aside from that fact, it's also worth pointing out that in some ways, MoP has been the most convenient expansion to date. Just yesterday I hit 90 on an alt and finished Lei Shen in LFR. That's convenient. I didn't even do one 5-man. The only inconvenient thing about MoP so far is that Have Group, Will Travel is no longer in the game.
This would be an especially good idea when also applied to leveling. Leveling scenarios, in my opinion, are a great missed opportunity by Blizzard. Quests get stale, dungeons are finite, etc. There is a huge untapped resource of scenarios, especially the ones that can't be done in Heroic, like Greenstone Village.
Ever played a fallout rpg? That i call true replayability. you can start over again and again and it only gets more interesting and enjoyable.
Lucklily Wasteland2 is coming out this autumn made by the original fallout1+2 designers. I got tired from wow, lore goes in a wrong direction, the mmo is limited to explain a story you really need to read the novels, and the game got really boring technically speaking. Reply value is small, as i consider mmos now only a more complex browser game, that is mainly about farming and doing the same things on a daily or weekly basis. And this with multiple alts gets very exhausting and in the end it wasn't fun either.