Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

So why is Biden still on board with allowing crushing student debt to continue?

As a college teacher, I get it. College shouldn't cost so fucking much and I should have way more students. It's nearly a mandate to get a degree anymore and too many are denied the chance.

But.

I'll say the same thing here I said when demanding DeVos' head: these people signed a contract, and they did so willingly. Should we look at relief? Please do. Are they victims if the status quo continues? Sadly, yes. But I'm not in favor of breaking contracts without cause. This is a complicated issue and demands further debate, but Biden not signing anything in his first month isn't a reason to say nothing at all will be done. I'd rather see six months or longer spent on how this can be done and how it'll be paid for (hint: by the companies that demand college degrees) than something half-assed shoved into a COVID bill.

College is too expensive. Student debt is crippling. I want the system fixed, not just paying off the victims.

P.S. Honest college loaners aren't my favorite people, but at least they're providing a service we've chosen to be mandatory. Predatory/fraudulent loan givers can roast in hell.

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Which I guess means it's incredibly real and not going anywhere?

Something something hot and wet, something something Paris?

[Elegiac]

Tucker Carlson really out there claiming the Biden's marriage is fake... or in his words, "as real as climate change." Which I guess means it's incredibly real and not going anywhere?

Ah yeah we've entered "conservatives can't actually pin a personal scandal on him so we'll sink to National Enquirer levels of making up bullshit" territory.

Wonder when the "Biden is gay" rumours are gonna start.

[Edge-]

Tucker Carlson really out there claiming the Biden's marriage is fake... or in his words, "as real as climate change." Which I guess means it's incredibly real and not going anywhere?

Wait...what? What is this dijon mustard, tan suit, latte saluting nonsense?

[Breccia]

Ah yeah we've entered "conservatives can't actually pin a personal scandal on him so we'll sink to National Enquirer levels of making up bullshit" territory.

I can't wait to bring up Carlson's comments and yours plus @Vegas82 's about it when Melania files for divorce. We'll clasp each other's virtual shoulders and have a grand huzzah, forsooth.

[Edge-]

https://www.newsweek.com/tucker-carl...-stunt-1569838

Welp, I'm glad we're back to our regularly scheduled nontroversies, then.

Isn't there some Biblical passage about not judging others and not bearing false witness etc. etc. etc.?

Man, I'm glad we're back to conservative media screaming at the fucking clouds.

[Themius]

As a college teacher, I get it. College shouldn't cost so fucking much and I should have way more students. It's nearly a mandate to get a degree anymore and too many are denied the chance.

But.

I'll say the same thing here I said when demanding DeVos' head: these people signed a contract, and they did so willingly. Should we look at relief? Please do. Are they victims if the status quo continues? Sadly, yes. But I'm not in favor of breaking contracts without cause. This is a complicated issue and demands further debate, but Biden not signing anything in his first month isn't a reason to say nothing at all will be done. I'd rather see six months or longer spent on how this can be done and how it'll be paid for (hint: by the companies that demand college degrees) than something half-assed shoved into a COVID bill.

College is too expensive. Student debt is crippling. I want the system fixed, not just paying off the victims.

P.S. Honest college loaners aren't my favorite people, but at least they're providing a service we've chosen to be mandatory. Predatory/fraudulent loan givers can roast in hell.

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Something something hot and wet, something something Paris?

The issue with the argument that they did so willing is that it is likely false. If they are required by society to get a degree and pushed and pushed into it, is it really a valid contract when there is coercion? Biden hasn't just not done it though... he's come out against large reforms to fix it. The idea of "breaking contracts without cause"

If you are poor and going to college what choice do you have but to get a loan so you can survive while going to school at the same time? There isn't any "willing choice" instead there is a coerced one which invalidates the contract.

The cause is crushing student debt with rising prices each year that outpaces inflations and wage growth which forces people to borrow, and the fact that the government made it impossible to get rid of the debt via normal means because democrats and republicans wanted to bolster the lending industry at the expense of students.

[Elegiac]

I'll say the same thing here I said when demanding DeVos' head: these people signed a contract, and they did so willingly

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkk offfffffffffffffff.

They did it about as willingly as someone "willingly" takes on medical debt. You cannot gate social mobility behind a for profit scheme and then claim "but personal responsibility" when that creates a perverse incentive, especially in such a heavily class ridden society like the US.

Nothing about forgiving the currently held student debt precludes fixing the system or vice versa. It's a non sequitur.

[Breccia]

The cause is crushing student debt with rising prices each year that outpaces inflations and wage growth which forces people to borrow

You cannot gate social mobility behind a for profit scheme and then claim "but personal responsibility" when that creates a perverse incentive, especially in such a heavily class ridden society like the US.

Like I said, the entire system needs a redo. You can go bankrupt to get out of medical debt, but not student debt.

[Elegiac]

Like I said, the entire system needs a redo. You can go bankrupt to get out of medical debt, but not student debt.

And like I said:

Nothing about forgiving the currently held student debt precludes fixing the system or vice versa. It's a non sequitur.

Releasing that many people from financial burden has other benefits besides those for collegiate system, to boot. The only argument against it is some vague moral hazard-esque bullshit wherein people might get addicted to tertiary education and abuse the system somehow.

[Breccia]

Releasing that many people from financial burden has other benefits besides those for collegiate system, to boot.

I look forward to seeing the plan to do this. The issue I saw originally, was people taking issue with Biden not instantly signing onto the first plan to hit his desk -- not even a month in. Perhaps we'll see a system tnat not only addresses those who still owe, but those who struggled but paid it off?

[Elegiac]

I look forward to seeing the plan to do this. The issue I saw originally, was people taking issue with Biden not instantly signing onto the first plan to hit his desk -- not even a month in. Perhaps we'll see a system tnat not only addresses those who still owe, but those who struggled but paid it off?

"Not signing onto the first plan that hits his desk" is a very dishonest way of framing criticism of means testing.

That is the point of contention - means testing. Not the speed, not some weird leftist purity test, its just that means testing is factually a harmful practice when applied to public assistance.

[Milchshake]

As a college teacher, I get it. College shouldn't cost so fucking much and I should have way more students. It's nearly a mandate to get a degree anymore and too many are denied the chance.

But.

I'll say the same thing here I said when demanding DeVos' head: these people signed a contract, and they did so willingly. Should we look at relief? Please do. Are they victims if the status quo continues? Sadly, yes. But I'm not in favor of breaking contracts without cause. This is a complicated issue and demands further debate, but Biden not signing anything in his first month isn't a reason to say nothing at all will be done. I'd rather see six months or longer spent on how this can be done and how it'll be paid for (hint: by the companies that demand college degrees) than something half-assed shoved into a COVID bill.

College is too expensive. Student debt is crippling. I want the system fixed, not just paying off the victims.

P.S. Honest college loaners aren't my favorite people, but at least they're providing a service we've chosen to be mandatory. Predatory/fraudulent loan givers can roast in hell.

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As someone that lectures, I'm also in agreement. I feel bad for anyone trapped under student. But some people went willingly to boutique private schools and paid too much.

They also happen to have the free time to be the loudest voices on twitter and /r/wayofthebern.

I'd rather take the $10,000 now since it helps the most people. It's a war of attrition, you have to take any victory you can grab.

Or them ignoring Biden's ideas to make State Schools and Community Colleges free...

It's like the petite bougie have colonized the modern socialist movement. They want a revolution, but the revolution has to put them at the front of the line.

[Breccia]

"Not signing onto the first plan that hits his desk" is a very dishonest way of framing criticism of means testing.

Well it's moot anyhow. Biden was clear that the issue was that he didn't have the authority to wipe out $50,000 in debt. I'm not ready to go through four years of Trump doing nothing but executive actions with no support, then say Biden should do the same. I'll instead say he has the right idea about restraint, and refrain on further comment until we see a bill get to the floor.

[Elegiac]

But some people went willingly to boutique private schools and paid too much.

Oh cool, I was wondering when we'd get the blue equivalent of the 'welfare queen' getting dropped.

[Breccia]

Or them ignoring Biden's ideas to make State Schools and Community Colleges free

New York is already trying that. Sadly, COVID hit hard and the program is struggling for funding.

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Oh cool, I was wondering when we'd get the blue equivalent of the 'welfare queen' getting dropped.

All college is too expensive. And it's growing faster than it has any right to.

Even with "shouldn't have gone to Ivy League price tag" as a defense, Ivy League price tag should have been halved anyhow. College is too expensive. It's shameful.

[Milchshake]

Oh cool, I was wondering when we'd get the blue equivalent of the 'welfare queen' getting dropped.

Sorry that globe trotting socialist think they're too good for our State and Community colleges.

[Themius]

I look forward to seeing the plan to do this. The issue I saw originally, was people taking issue with Biden not instantly signing onto the first plan to hit his desk -- not even a month in. Perhaps we'll see a system tnat not only addresses those who still owe, but those who struggled but paid it off?

The issue I have is that he isn't even open to entirely erasing student debt, the one thing it appears he actually has the power to do.

[Elegiac]

Well it's moot anyhow. Biden was clear that the issue was that he didn't have the authority to wipe out $50,000 in debt.

No, he was clear that his issue was the subject of means testing. You have a great many legal scholars and even people in the Senate saying such is entirely within his power.

I'm not ready to go through four years of Trump doing nothing but executive actions with no support, then say Biden should do the same.

Why.

[Themius]

Sorry that globe trotting socialist think they're too good for our State and Community colleges.

State college are free? I mean it seems the average debt for my state school is about 30k....

[Elegiac]

Sorry that globe trotting socialist think they're too good for our State and Community colleges.

So, no one you can actually describe? Lol.

Like I said, it's a boogeyman analogue to the Welfare Queen. Check yourself.