Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Twdft]

And then this all will happen again in 10-20 years. I'd rather this issue is solved now and my children won't have to deal with it.

Yeah. I've met people on the "if Ukraine had just surrendered almost nobody would have died and we'd have peace again" train. And I'm like wtf dude if ruSSia would have gotten away with Ukraine a couple years later they would invade the next country. Ukraine fights for all of Europe and I'm sad that not enough people see that.

[Draco-Onis]

And then this all will happen again in 10-20 years. I'd rather this issue is solved now and my children won't have to deal with it.

Unless you have a time machine there is no way to solve it now so your children won't have to deal with it again.

[Gabriel]

Unless you have a time machine there is no way to solve it now so your children won't have to deal with it again.

Ohh, but there is a way to solve this now. Give Ukraine everything they need to completely destroy russian invaders so that there will be a coup in russia once some faction finally gets tired of Putler.

[Draco-Onis]

Ohh, but there is a way to solve this now. Give Ukraine everything they need to completely destroy russian invaders so that there will be a coup in russia once some faction finally gets tired of Putler.

Your first mistake is thinking that if Putin were out of the way things would be fine in the future, things are never that simple.

[Makabreska]

Ohh, but there is a way to solve this now. Give Ukraine everything they need to completely destroy russian invaders so that there will be a coup in russia once some faction finally gets tired of Putler.

Uh, you do realize that the only coup will be done by Putlers pals, AKA other ex-Soviet dudes? No other opposition exists. Sure, his pals may be more pragmatic and less "restore Great Russia" fixated, but the pattern of strong arming others and "NATO is evul" will most likely remain. It may be even worse, because if someone more capable will start to reform the country, then they may become a more significant threat.

[Xyonai]

What a clever ploy. Destroy your own economy, army and credibility, making your mighty empire into a vassal state of China. And still conjure a magic weapon to turn it all around.

Really, where do you get these conspiracies?

Yuppie's usual alarmism aside, there -is- a point to what they're saying.

Granted, I'm not sure how much Putin -can- actually escalate the conflict given how poor the Russian Military's supply lines and air support have been, and I seriously doubt they've been 'holding back' conventional arms since I assume they would've pulled out their secret weapons after the third month of their three day invasion...

In my uneducated opinions, the likely outcomes appear to be:

1: Double down and start mass conscripting of the parts of Russia they havn't dipped into yet, which would be highly unpopular even for the pro-war population the same way I'm sure the average Mexico hating Trumper would be steamed if a Republican president forcibly conscripted them into a war against Mexico.

2: Attempt to actually Rally a counter-offensive against Ukraine's zerg rush which... I feel like they would've done by now if they had the capacity to do so.

3: Actually be desperate/insane enough to launch a tactical nuclear weapon at one of Ukraine's larger cities.

4: Or simply let things play out as they are and let the population get increasingly uneasy as it becomes apparent, even to them, how much this is going south.

I have big doubts that anything but options two or four are on the table, with forced conscription likely ending with a revolt - or just big protests - and a call for a Nuclear strike being intercepted by someone just Shooting Putin out of a fucking window. Option Four seems the most likely thing to happen as Ukraine keeps pushing and Russia seems unable to pin them down and successfully attack their forces - instead opting to lob more missiles at children and unarmed civilians - while option two can happen if the Russian forces on either side of the collapsing front line are, somehow, wrangled together enough to try and cut them off or hit the advancing force from the back and not somehow end up on the other end of a Turkish Drone or American Missile system.

[Gabriel]

Your first mistake is thinking that if Putin were out of the way things would be fine in the future, things are never that simple.

You forgot the next part of my plan that I said earlier.

[Draco-Onis]

You forgot the next part of my plan that I said earlier.

Oh yes the invasion of Russia by Finland even more insane.

[Gabriel]

Uh, you do realize that the only coup will be done by Putlers pals, AKA other ex-Soviet dudes? No other opposition exists. Sure, his pals may be more pragmatic and less "restore Great Russia" fixated, but the pattern of strong arming others and "NATO is evul" will most likely remain. It may be even worse, because if someone more capable will start to reform the country, then they may become a more significant threat.

You are aware the FSB and the russian military are already on the brink of war with each other, yes? Everything that makes russia spent money on internal conflict is good for russia's neighbours.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh yes the invasion of Russia by Finland even more insane.

No, the civil war part.

[Draco-Onis]

No, the civil war part.

A nuclear power going into a civil war will totes not result in unknown future problems of greater magnitudes to your children.

[Draco-Onis]

Much earlier in the thread, wasn't this literally something argued by people like Easo and Gaidax, that they should have just surrendered to an invading country because it'd be easier?

I may be mistaken but I believe their stance was that Ukraine should negotiate a solid peace deal with guarantees from the international community even if it means ceding some territory to save lives and the economy.

[Gabriel]

A nuclear power going into a civil war will totes not result in unknown future problems of greater magnitudes to your children.

I'll take those chances.

[Draco-Onis]

Not much difference to what I said then.

compromise isn't surrender.

[Saradain]

Much earlier in the thread, wasn't this literally something argued by people like Easo and Gaidax, that they should have just surrendered to an invading country because it'd be easier?

Dunno about Gaidax or what he wrote back then, but Easo fucked off from the thread around the time Bucha was revealed after he used his "fog of war" & "we don't know what truly happens in the battlezones" mantra and apologism towards russian invaders countless times.

But yeah, certain people we shall not name anymore did argue that Ukraine should just surrender to save their lives. Fuck their sovereignty, if they defend themselves, they are to be blamed for the loss of life and terrorism done by the orcs.

[Ripster42]

compromise isn't surrender.

So literally the exact argument they were making. Because this is the exact argument they were making, including the "compromise isn't surrender" bullshit, somehow failing to realize that conditional surrender is still surrender.

[Draco-Onis]

So literally the exact argument they were making. Because this is the exact argument they were making, including the "compromise isn't surrender" bullshit, somehow failing to realize that conditional surrender is still surrender.

This isn't a movie your bravado has a cost in terms of economics and human lives, I don't know if you haven't noticed but this is going to be long war with a lot of dead bodies. I don't know why aside from fictional propaganda bullshit people are so opposed to anything aside from total war.

[Makabreska]

This isn't a movie your bravado has a cost in terms of economics and human lives, I don't know if you haven't noticed but this is going to be long war with a lot of dead bodies. I don't know why aside from fictional propaganda bullshit people are so opposed to anything aside from total war.

This "long war" is getting more and more doubtful, considering recent events and Putler being reprimanded by his Asian peers for stirring shit up.

[Gabriel]

This isn't a movie your bravado has a cost in terms of economics and human lives, I don't know if you haven't noticed but this is going to be long war with a lot of dead bodies. I don't know why aside from fictional propaganda bullshit people are so opposed to anything aside from total war.

Because we've tried "anything aside from total war" since 2014, and it has cost tens of thousands of Ukrainians to lose their lives, not to mention all the people that lost their homes.

[Ripster42]

This isn't a movie your bravado has a cost in terms of economics and human lives, I don't know if you haven't noticed but this is going to be long war with a lot of dead bodies. I don't know why aside from fictional propaganda bullshit people are so opposed to anything aside from total war.

You could go back and read the thread. They're near easo's last posts in this thread.

[Draco-Onis]

Because we've tried "anything aside from total war" since 2014, and it has cost tens of thousands of Ukrainians to lose their lives, not to mention all the people that lost their homes.

Nope because Ukraine was ignored for years and it was basically implied that a "small incursion" into Ukraine would be totes fine.