Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Lahis]

I guess I forgot about that.

That makes me wonder though, did she originate there? How are the priestesses of Elune and the Sunwalkers, (assuming An'she and Elune are from the same plane or even the same person) using holy abilities? Why would Elune give them powers from another plane? Unless of course she is more like the Titans, and can use abilities from all the planes at will.

Canon Priestess of the moon abilities are closer to Balance Druid kit than any priest spec.

Every race's priests using the same holy spells is justgame mechanics.

[UndedoKoleda]

Aah found one! The paladin discord already said the unknowing would screech that retri is shit.
They went from way way overtuned to in line with others. Sorry that Blizzard pissed in your cereals and you can't be op during release. Guess you'll have to find the next fotm to go to!

Funny, that you say that and right after wowhead posts this article-

https://www.wowhead.com/news/retribu...nt-tree-329400

Their ret paladin guide writer is not happy with the current state of the spec on beta.

[Nymrohd]

Aah found one! The paladin discord already said the unknowing would screech that retri is shit.
They went from way way overtuned to in line with others. Sorry that Blizzard pissed in your cereals and you can't be op during release. Guess you'll have to find the next fotm to go to!

I honestly expected them to nerf Prot before Ret. The ST AS build was oppressive in PvP and could match most dps in PvE while building constant absorb shields.

[Revamp Man]

In other news, I really hope they get to squashing more profession bugs next update cause right now the UI is borked and work orders are still not working properly. But at least they got World Quests to work again. I still keep randomly crashing left and right though.

I crash in combat now compared to just crashing while herbing

The ui I'd screwed but at least it's only the visuals and I can look at WQs now and tailoring has shown me that professions are overall really quick and easy so while leveling I'm enchanting tailor then at cap after I make my cape and speed enchants I'll either drop for herbalist inscription or keep for a raid level cloak

Debating doing all dragon races for the mog reward since I have no interest in grinding in beta

[UndedoKoleda]

Er... about that...

There is nothing about that...

Also, because the First Ones told them not to, just like with the pantheon of Death. And if there's anybody in the multiverse that is going to follow a rule, it's the Order guys.

Given that the Titans are straight out trying to conceal the existence of the First Ones, it seems unlikely that they hold them in high enough regard, to follow unquestionably their rules.

[Revamp Man]

Aah found one! The paladin discord already said the unknowing would screech that retri is shit.
They went from way way overtuned to in line with others. Sorry that Blizzard pissed in your cereals and you can't be op during release. Guess you'll have to find the next fotm to go to!

A big issue is mainly its boring and the class tree has little choice but yeah people saying it's trash or broken are just toddlers

[Nymrohd]

Funny, that you say that and right after wowhead posts this article-

https://www.wowhead.com/news/retribu...nt-tree-329400

Their ret paladin guide writer is not happy with the current state of the spec on beta.

The complaints however are not that the class is not effective. It's that the trees, especially the class tree, are fucking boring and a complete railroad.

[8bithamster]

Funny, that you say that and right after wowhead posts this article-

https://www.wowhead.com/news/retribu...nt-tree-329400

Their ret paladin guide writer is not happy with the current state of the spec on beta.

Which literally says that the spec itself is performing fine, it's just that the tree is shit. Exactly. Thank you for proving my point!

- - - Updated - - -

A big issue is mainly its boring and the class tree has little choice but yeah people saying it's trash or broken are just toddlers

Exactly this.. but hey, apparently people can't distinguish between bad tree and performance. Same shit, different expansion. People will cry that it sucks like every other damn expansion, and a few expansions later "Remember how good SL/DF was? Such an amazing expansion!"

[Le Conceptuel]

Exactly this.. but hey, apparently people can't distinguish between bad tree and performance.

Nuance and MMO-Champion—never shall the two meet.

[UndedoKoleda]

Which literally says that the spec itself is performing fine, it's just that the tree is shit. Exactly. Thank you for proving my point!

The person you quoted literally said "In DF, they are ignoring problems with talents. Retri is a fucking joke.". So what is your point, again?

[Nymrohd]

The person you quoted literally said "In DF, they are ignoring problems with talents. Retri is a fucking joke.". So what is your point, again?

The spec is not "a fucking joke". It performed so absurdly strong they had to nerf it and it still performs well. Given in the very next sentence the poster say another spec's numbers are stong, the implication is fairly clear that he believes ret does not output well which is grossly untrue.

[UndedoKoleda]

I guess we'll have to ask @Kuntantee to clarify exactly what he meant.

[huth]

Your other argument is mostly fair. However, it still strike me as odd that there occurred a substantial drop in searches specifically simultaneous with the apex of Shadowlands. There was previously a very consistent rate at which the search rate was decreasingly steadily. The drop-off which occurred after Shadowlands was far more severe.

Well, did you look for correlations with reporting, or did you just go and assume it must be something with the game itself?

Your other claim just keeps getting more unconvincing. They didn't do that with WoD either. That's not how their planning and dev pipelines work, those decisions were already made long before the actual problems became visible. That you have difficulty interpreting it a certain way is not evidence that it was so, only a limit to your own capabilities. Plausible does not mean likely.

Given that the Titans are straight out trying to conceal the existence of the First Ones, it seems unlikely that they hold them in high enough regard, to follow unquestionably their rules.

Odyn is not a Titan. We never actually got the Titan's perspective on this given that we had all of 10 minutes to talk to them, most of which was taken up trying to get Argus put to rest and the rest was mostly saying bye.

Odyn being something of a jerk who always thinks he knows better (and is fairly often wrong) is pretty well-established by now, too.

[Le Conceptuel]

Well, did you look for correlations with reporting, or did you just go and assume it must be something with the game itself?

Your other claim just keeps getting more unconvincing. They didn't do that with WoD either. That's not how their planning and dev pipelines work, those decisions were already made long before the actual problems became visible. That you have difficulty interpreting it a certain way is not evidence that it was so, only a limit to your own capabilities. Plausible does not mean likely.

Aside from the quality of the expansion itself, the only other reason I could see for the decreased engagement is the lawsuits, which I believe began around the time that the dip occurred. I could attribute the loss of engagement to a desire to avoid Blizzard products, but that still would also suggest a likely decrease in subscriber count.

Also, just because I'm a pedantic fuck

Of an argument, an idea, a statement, etc.: seeming reasonable, probable, or truthful; convincing, believable

"Probable" is contained as an implication of "plausible", "probable" means "likely". Plausible does actually have interchangeability with likely.

[Nymrohd]

I guess we'll have to ask @Kuntantee to clarify exactly what he meant.

Well you don't call a spec that is performing extremely well yet has a boring talent tree a joke. That much seems fairly objective. Ret was a joke in much of the beta indeed, a very bad joke for anyone trying to PvP against them getting destroyed in seconds.

[huth]

"Probable" is contained as an implication of "plausible", "probable" means "likely". Plausible does actually have interchangeability with likely.

Two key words you missed: 'seeming', i.e. it only indicates an appearance of being reasonable, probable or truthfull and 'or', i.e. it isn't necessarily all of those. Also notable are the other two words. Convincing and believable don't map to probable at all, but do map with seeming reasonable and seeming probable.

They actually aren't interchangeable as plausible implies that the matter in question appears a certain way, not that it is such.

[Le Conceptuel]

Two key words you missed: 'seeming', i.e. it only indicates an appearance of being reasonable, probable or truthfull and 'or', i.e. it isn't necessarily all of those. Also notable are the other two words. Convincing and believable don't map to probable at all, but do map with seeming reasonable and seeming probable.

They actually aren't interchangeable as plausible implies that the matter in question appears a certain way, not that it is such.

Fair enough, but it does potentially imply probability. Still, that's beside the point—what I was primarily saying is that I have checked for alternative causality and found little. There exist two feasible reasons for the abrupt dip in engagement I noticed, which is that it either emerged as a result of the lawsuits, or that it emerged as a result of a subpar expansion. The general sentiment I've picked up from the various forums I've visited is that it is likely a little bit of both. These sentiments would likely coincide with a drop in subscriber numbers.

[MightyWarrior]

All this is very confusing for a mongo like myself.. whos hyped for Dragonflight though? Pre patch in a week!

[8bithamster]

The person you quoted literally said "In DF, they are ignoring problems with talents. Retri is a fucking joke.". So what is your point, again?

The spec is not a joke.. wonky talent trees =/= spec is a joke. Nice try though!

[Kiivar86]

All this is very confusing for a mongo like myself.. whos hyped for Dragonflight though? Pre patch in a week!

I'm more hyped for Dragonflight than I was for Shadowlands. Pre-launch of Shadowlands, I remember feeling hesitant, but I'm not for Dragonflight.