Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Iphie]

Just HOW would they to force the Belarus army to do anything though? Lukashenko couldn't, some other Russian puppet isn't going to be able to do so either.

Luka DIDN'T want to and so didn't order an invasion, another puppet might actually give the order to invade and then we'll see how much Belarusian bluster is worth.

[Kallisto]

Luka DIDN'T want to and so didn't order an invasion, another puppet might actually give the order to invade and then we'll see how much Belarusian bluster is worth.

Even then with what equipment? Russia has essentially stripped Belarus bare in the last couple of months due to their own shortage.

Honestly the will they, won't they conundrum is actually best for Russia. It's not February anymore and Ukraine pretty much has the entire border fortified.

The Belarus army is ill equipped, less trained and worse moral than the Russian one. If I were Putin I think I'd rather have the North Korean "volunteers."

[zealo]

Luka DIDN'T want to and so didn't order an invasion, another puppet might actually give the order to invade and then we'll see how much Belarusian bluster is worth.

The Belarusian people have shown themselves that they'll actually jump on an opportunity to try to free themselves if it should present itself.

I'm sure Lukashenko's opinion of "not wanting to" is highly motivated by not inadvertently helping to engineer a situation that sees his ass being perforated by a bayonet in the streets of Minsk.

[Iphie]

Even then with what equipment? Russia has essentially stripped Belarus bare in the last couple of months due to their own shortage.

Honestly the will they, won't they conundrum is actually best for Russia. It's not February anymore and Ukraine pretty much has the entire border fortified.

The Belarus army is ill equipped, less trained and worse moral than the Russian one. If I were Putin I think I'd rather have the North Korean "volunteers."

That is another question, and I am aware of the stripping bare of the Belarusian army.

I mean I don't realistically see it happening for those reasons but putin might try it nevertheless, I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt anymore about not doing the most stupid thing possible.

[Corvus]

It doesn't make a lot of sense, no, but pootie is getting increasingly desperate. He doesn't care if they are poorly trained and lacking equipment, he just wants another 60,000 soldiers to throw human wave style against Ukraine. And if there are protests? Well, the massive russian state security apparatus is still around, untouched by the war. They might be no good against soldiers but they are good at beating up civilians.

[Gabriel]

None of the shit russia does makes any sense.

[Slant]

I'd just apply it for double citizenships, and not go for people with visas or residency permits.

Double citizenships should not exist. I detest my Government playing along with it. You can only serve one master.

[Iphie]

Double citizenships should not exist. I detest my Government playing along with it. You can only serve one master.

That's some medieval thinking there. I literally can't wait till I'm a dual citizen. (As soon as I have time to study for it ...)

[Cthulhu 2020]

Double citizenships should not exist. I detest my Government playing along with it. You can only serve one master.

Seeing your country as your "master" is a really weird subservient take.

[Corvus]

Russian troops are already showing signs of hypothermia - and the real cold hasn't fully set in yet.

[Iphie]

Russian troops are already showing signs of hypothermia - and the real cold hasn't fully set in yet.

One of the YouTubers I follow claimed that russia itself estimates they'll lose another 100k over the winter...I honestly don't know how to feel anymore, on the one hand sure they need to fuck off from Ukraine but on the other hand the callousness with which their lives are expended just boggles the mind.

[Kallisto]

Double citizenships should not exist. I detest my Government playing along with it. You can only serve one master.

The state being the master is some seriously backward way of thinking and is another proof of why any and all kinds of nationalism civic or ethnic is nothing more than a brother to fascism trying to force the average person into us vs them, even if them is a brother, cousin, aunt etc due to people moving.

[Lynarii]

That's some medieval thinking there. I literally can't wait till I'm a dual citizen. (As soon as I have time to study for it ...)

I am a dual citizen, and I care deeply about both the country of my birth and the one I've been living in for most of my adult life. I am lucky in that it is unlikely in the extreme that I would ever have to make a choice between the two, and what choice that would be would heavily depend on the circumstances that forced the choice to begin with. I am a loyal woman, but not blindly so.

[Xarkan]

The state being the master is some seriously backward way of thinking and is another proof of why any and all kinds of nationalism civic or ethnic is nothing more than a brother to fascism trying to force the average person into us vs them, even if them is a brother, cousin, aunt etc due to people moving.

Except some countries really do try to be your master. If you serve them and become a citizen of a new country then.. well you'd still have only one master.

You might as a dual Iranian/Danish citizen be ones of those hunting down disloyal Iranians in Denmark as a random examle (to be clear it is more likely you would not be)

And that is when the dual citizenship should be immidiately revoked, when either country is your master you cannot be a citizen in any other

[Iliena]

Double citizenships should not exist. I detest my Government playing along with it. You can only serve one master.

What a weird take, better shred my Irish passport then!

[Slant]

That's some medieval thinking there. I literally can't wait till I'm a dual citizen. (As soon as I have time to study for it ...)

Yeah? There are some pretty medieval countries out there. I'm fine with a global citizenship once we have an EArth Government, but until that happens, I'd like to be sure that people are loyal to my country and don't fucking have election campaigns for Turkey happening in Germany in which they talk about how shit Germany is. Those guys can vote in German elections. Not sure I'd like that. Thank you very much.

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Seeing your country as your "master" is a really weird subservient take.

Don't take it too literal, you'll only hurt yourself.

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The state being the master is some seriously backward way of thinking and is another proof of why any and all kinds of nationalism civic or ethnic is nothing more than a brother to fascism trying to force the average person into us vs them, even if them is a brother, cousin, aunt etc due to people moving.

Godamnit, you guys are literal today... what I'm saying is that you can't be loyal to two countries at the same time. Or let me ask a different way, if you like it here so much that you want to be a citizen, why the fuck do you need to hold on to Russian citizenship? Given that Putin actively uses Russians and migration streams to actively (sic!) distrupt European stability, fuck no, there is no reason for dual citizenship to be a thing. Ever. Migrate if you want, but once you settle in somewhere that you want to be a citizen, you'll have to have a really fucking good reason to explain why you want both citizenships. And no, "because easier than visa" ain't cutting it.

Citizenship isn't a club membership that you can switch on or off as you see fit. There are legal consequences to it. People switch citizenships maybe once in their lifetime, it's monumental. You guys should probably ponder on why that is before you respond with your laissez faire attitude towards dual citizenship.

[Elegiac]

Godamnit, you guys are literal today... what I'm saying is that you can't be loyal to two countries at the same time.

And why's that?

Or let me ask a different way, if you like it here so much that you want to be a citizen, why the fuck do you need to hold on to Russian citizenship? Given that Putin actively uses Russians and migration streams to actively (sic!) distrupt European stability, fuck no, there is no reason for dual citizenship to be a thing. Ever.

Aside from the incredibly sketchy precedent that being able to uncitizen someone sets, you mean.

Migrate if you want, but once you settle in somewhere that you want to be a citizen, you'll have to have a really fucking good reason to explain why you want both citizenships. And no, "because easier than visa" ain't cutting it.

Just because you personally don't find ease of movement a good reason doesn't mean it isn't a perfectly valid reason.

Visiting family aside, as a minority whose rights can quite easily be called into question by a simple change of government having the ability to change country of residence without relying on the asylum process is a recourse that I keep in my back pocket. Which is another good reason why I keep my three (3) citizenships active.

Citizenship isn't a club membership that you can switch on or off as you see fit. There are legal consequences to it. People switch citizenships maybe once in their lifetime, it's monumental. You guys should probably ponder on why that is before you respond with your laissez faire attitude towards dual citizenship.

*ponders*

Because emigration is usually expensive and naturalization often involves a lot of bureaucratic hurdles. It'd be less "monumental" if it were easier.

[Gabriel]

Jesus Christ I don't give a fuck if someone has dual or triple citizenships, as long as one of them isn't russia.

[Veggie50]

Dual citizenship is just an administrative convenience for people who have an established life in one country, but family in their country of origin. If borders matter less, dual citizenship matters less.

This is not problematic in the least. Of course it becomes a bit less intuitive when theres a war between two nations, but lets not build our common day systems around the possibility of eventual war. War should be as inconvenient as possible.

Aside from that, taking away dual citizenship does not mean a person drops all loyalty/nation identity. In that way, dual citizenship is actually quite a good way to keep an eye on individuals possibly posing a problem.

[Nymrohd]

International law abhors stateless persons. Challenges to dual citizenship laws that may result in statelessness in even the rarest of cases are met with outcry by legal reviews for that reason. @Slant I understand the concern and I think we had that discussion before because of the issue with dual citizenship Erdogan voters there? but the matter of fact is you cannot compel someone to abandon citizenship rights without violating the human right to self-determination