Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

She is a NY Congress person! Doesn't know how our bleeping justice system works,

She appears to be talking about the many other court cases Trump has lost, without appearing in court. His lawyers do the work for him, including the million-dollar sanctions for being that fucking stupid.

Oh, she's still wrong and crazy. But Trump failing to appear is technically possible. It will not cause anything to "blow over".

That said, I think you're suggesting this time will be different because this time he'll be under arrest for a criminal charge. And I agree with that. Him not showing up would make things much w...

Hey everyone, how's Trump going to post bail? He owes everyone money, he's broke, and he's a massive flight risk. Like, 300 pounds at least. Oh, he also might flee the country on his own plane. Is it possible Trump won't be able to make bail? He'd probably get house arrest, but still, imagine running for office on the sole qualification of "I am rich" and not being able to make bail.

[fwc577]

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/s...-it-in-any-way


DeSanctimonious killing his chances at a Presidential run in 2024.

"I don’t know what goes into paying hush money to a porn star to secure silence over some type of alleged affair. I just, I can’t speak to that" - Ron DeSanctimonious

[Breccia]

House Judiciary Committee demands Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg testify about possible Trump indictment, shrieks FOX News.

Jordan warned Bragg that if news reports of a possible Trump indictment are accurate, Bragg’s actions "will erode confidence in the evenhanded application of justice and unalterably interfere in the court of the 2024 presidential election."

"In light of the serious consequences of your actions, we expect that you will testify about what plainly appears to be a politically motivated prosecutorial decision," Jordan wrote.

"The legal theory underlying your reported prosecution appears to be tenuous and untested," Jordan wrote.

Jordan said that the five-year statute "would likely expire soon and thus explains your rush to indictment."

"The only--"

"Excuse me!"

...yes?

"Isn't waiting till the end of the legal period, and/or five years, the opposite of a 'rush to indictment'? It seems like NY waited a very long time. Like, they were collecting records and witnesses and stuff."

Well, in a sane world, yes.

"Also Trump was in the White House for most of those years. Is Jordan suggesting NY should have arrested Trump during the State of the Union? Or any other part of his tenure, for that matter?"

I doubt it.

"Is Jordan saying Trump should have been arrested in 2016?"

I doubt it. The crime in question hadn't happened yet. Cohen's had, Trump's hadnt.

"Isn't this a full six weeks before Trump's Sept announcement in 2015? Like, we're not even close to any primaries yet?"

Correct.

"What, exactly, is Jordan trying to accomplish?"

He's trying to tell Trump supporters he's on their side without actually doing anything.

"The only potential speculated crime that could be alleged here would be a violation of campaign finance law, according to one scholar, a charge that the Justice Department has already declined to bring," Jordan wrote.

"Is that one scholar Eastman?"

Honestly, sure, why not.

"Are there other scholars who disagree?"

Yes, they're called the New York State Government which also has laws on the books about violating campaign donations. Jordan's expert is wrong and therefore Jordan is wrong.

"In addition to the novel and untested legal theory, your star witness for this prosecution has a serious credibility problem—a problem that you have reportedly recognized," Jordan wrote. "This case relies heavily on the testimony of Michael Cohen, a convicted perjurer with a demonstrable prejudice against Trump."

Jordan maintained that "the facts of this matter have not changed since 2018 and no new witnesses have emerged."

"Wasn't the perjury 'I did not break the law on Trump's behalf'?"

Yes.

"Has Trump taken the stand on the issue?"

I don't believe so, no.

"If Cohen is lying on the stand about something after that conviction, doesn't he go to jail for even more time?"

Yes. Cohen has no reason to lie under oath.

"Isn't the prejudice against Trump, caused by Trump ordering Cohen to break the law, Cohen breaking the law, Cohen being caught, and Trump not helping?"

Yes. The crime in question was in 2018, meaning Trump didn't pay Cohen back for two years. Cohen had to take out a loan. Trump didn't pay Cohen so hard, that Cohen went to jail.

"What will happen if Jordan's request is unanswered?"

Literally nothing.

"Can Jordan stop a state prosecution?"

I don't think so, let me check the Constitution. (1.7 seconds later) No.

"Can Jordan have Bragg arrested?"

Well, Bannon got arrested, so technically yes. But Bannon was arrested for being ordered to show up with a subpoena, and he just didn't want to. I don't know the details of how Jordan would even issue one, considering there's no crime on the table and, well, Jordan is Legislative branch. He couldn't pass a new law that would help because of (a) the Senate (b) Biden (c) ex post facto. If he does manage to get a subpoena, Bragg will shrug, show up, say under oath that everything is above-board, probably school some GOP members because them acting like idiots and getting owned on camera is a thing now, and then leave.

And I think Jordan knows all of that.

He wants to be on camera saying "I am helping!" to keep the cultists, like the posters here, still with the Republican Party when Trump is logistically forced out of the running because he's, you know, arrested. He wants to make a big enough stink that the cultists come sniffing around, hoping there's more excrement they can smear on their faces. He wants to lower the risk of a third-party run by Inmate 45, and he thinks sucking up to Trump this way will work.

But even if he has tools other than words, which are few if any, he doesn't really want to use them. Greene might be plotting a jailbreak, armed with clods of dirt, but Jordan is saying "harumph, harumph!" in public while calling DeSantis every night.

Since this was FOX News posting literal garbage on their front page, I've decided this is another +5 CNN points. Pushing "WITCH HUNT!" isn't news, it's Trump cultist propaganda. If there's no crime here, Trump will walk. If there is, he deserves to be found guilty.

- - - Updated - - -

DeSanctimonious killing his chances at a Presidential run in 2024.

"I don’t know what goes into paying hush money to a porn star to secure silence over some type of alleged affair. I just, I can’t speak to that" - Ron DeSanctimonious

Too soon, Executus! Yeah, I knew DeSantis would smell blood in the water eventually, but this is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early in the process. I don't know about "killing" but it's going to take a hit.

Oh no! Anyway...

[Edge-]

https://www.axios.com/2023/03/20/des...ump-indictment

"I don't know what's going to happen, but I do know this, the Manhattan district attorney is a Soros-funded prosecutor," DeSantis said Monday, referring to billionaire investor George Soros.

They truly can never stop with the antisemitism. Ever.

[Breccia]

"the Manhattan district attorney is a Soros-funded prosecutor,"

I mean...they're both Democrats, right? It'd be strange if he didn't.

Rich people donate to candidates on their side of the aisle. If Republicans don't like that idea, they can suck my Koch.

[Edge-]

I mean...they're both Democrats, right? It'd be strange if he didn't.

Rich people donate to candidates on their side of the aisle. If Republicans don't like that idea, they can suck my Koch.

It was hilarious because that shit came up in my local DA race. Challenger was having their supporter spam Soros-based attacks on the incumbent (who was pretty good) all over local media comments sections and highlighting the connection in campaign materials.

Like...do they think George has all the time in the world to personally direct every politician that's received any funding from his organizations and do everything else he does in the day?

[Endus]

They truly can never stop with the antisemitism. Ever.

Was coming in to say; just like anyone complaining about "woke" anything is either racist, homophobic, transphobic, or a magical combination thereof like a bigot Voltron, anyone bitching about Soros is an antisemitic fuck.

These aren't dogwhistles, you morons. They're foghorns. You're just broadcasting your bigotry and everyone knows exactly what you mean.

[gondrin]

https://www.axios.com/2023/03/20/des...ump-indictment



They truly can never stop with the antisemitism. Ever.

The far-right boogeyman. George Soros.

Bath water gone cold? Soros. Food taking a few minutes longer to come out after ordered then it should? Soros. Product you wanted to buy but sold out? Soros.

I mean, it is up there with those people with blaming Obama for everything and anything.

[Breccia]

Citing FOX News again but only +1 point this time because they point out something that's really detrimental to their own viewers.

New York City authorities have no specific timing in mind for a potential indictment and arraignment of Trump, but many are now concerned that arresting Trump is likely to be dangerous, a source told Fox News Digital.

Several law enforcement groups were scheduled to meet at noon on Monday at NYPD headquarters in Manhattan to discuss the logistics of a potential indictment against Trump. The NYPD will be hosting the meeting, and other attendees will include Michael Magliano, chief of the Department of Public Safety, who oversees NY court officer; the head of the Secret Service of the New York office, and a representative from the Manhattan district attorney's office.

The Secret Service is expected to suggest the possibility of a virtual arraignment, removing the need for Trump to be physically arrested and moved, the source said. In the event of an indictment, a physical arrest would be the responsibility of the Secret Service.

Law enforcement are concerned about the "tremendous amount of danger" and "hysteria" surrounding Trump's potential arrest. Trump himself has encouraged supporters to "take our country back" in the event of his arrest.

FOX News is telling their own viewers that their own viewers are violent dangerous thugs. Multiple high-level state and federal law-enforcement officials are discussing the problem that Trump's cultists are dangerous -- which they can easily back up with Jan 6th data.

By the way, letting him be arrested virtually is a cowardly option. It's the far extreme of white privilege if Trump can do it, but nobody else can. If people really want to lay down their lives for the narcisist who demands they do so without even knowing their name, you know what, let them try. If they're lucky, they'll just be tazed or gassed. Unlucky, arrested. Very unlucky, suicide by cop. Their decision, not the law's.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, it is up there with those people with blaming Obama for everything and anything.

Obama did have some questionable condiments...for me to Poupon!

[PrimiOne]

https://www.axios.com/2023/03/20/des...ump-indictment



They truly can never stop with the antisemitism. Ever.

It's fascinating seeing Ronnie's malabarisms to try to sell this product of "I'm not Donnie...I'm better!!". This difuse line of marketing that tries to get distance from Trump because he can't possibly win at Trumpism but at the same time targets the same customer.

"I don't know what [...].. but [...]" is gonna be his template of the next year.

Well, Ronnie...I don't know what you are thinking but if you think you can win without blood you don't know your audience. If you think you can win the republican ticket without CAPS and insults and bold statements about Trump that goes viral.....you...don't.....know...your ...audience.

[s_bushido]

They truly can never stop with the antisemitism. Ever.

Who are they going to blame all the world's ills on once Soros dies? Dude's ancient, they can't have many more years milking that particular cow.

[Shadowferal]

Who are they going to blame all the world's ills on once Soros dies? Dude's ancient, they can't have many more years milking that particular cow.

I'm sure George Santos will come up to the plate.

[gondrin]

I'm sure George Santos will come up to the plate.

Nah. Clinton is a go to favorite. Along with Obama. I mean, even Bill Gates is getting put into the action.

[Edge-]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/con...robe-rcna75754

"You are reportedly about to engage in an unprecedented abuse of prosecutorial authority: the indictment of a former president of the United States and current declared candidate for that office," the letter said.

It comes ahead of a pending New York grand jury decision in the case.

"This indictment comes after years of your office searching for a basis — any basis — on which to bring charges, ultimately settling on a novel legal theory untested anywhere in the country and one that federal authorities declined to pursue," they lawmakers continued. "If these reports are accurate, your actions will erode confidence in the evenhanded application of justice and unalterably interfere in the course of the 2024 presidential election."

House Republicans are big mad over this news.

I hope he shows up and doesn't fight if they subpoena him, honestly. And that in response to every question about the decision to investigate and potentially charge Trump he responds essentially with, "Because he's a criminal."

[s_bushido]

I love how their only argument seems to be "You can't prosecute him, he was the President!!!" It's fucking ridiculous. Do they really think it's a good idea to literally be out here saying that he should be above the law? So much for the Party of Law and Order.™

[Breccia]

House Republicans are big mad over this news.

Yeah, so I didn't quote this in my earlier citation and in retrospect I should have.

@s_bushido is correct, this is the House GOP leader, not some random asshole like me, but someone in an actual position of power and authority, saying "you can't arrest someone who's running for office."

Bull.

Fucking.

Shit.

No-one is above the law. Trump announced the second the 2022 elections ended, purely to enable this handwaving-style defense. Bear in mind, based on what we know, the grand jury came back asking for an indictment. And this happened before he announced, not after. Clinton was sued while in office, for example, so there is actual President as well as precedent.

And, again helmet off to the samurai, but you know what would erode confidence in law and order? Saying you know someone is guilty of a crime but you won't arrest him because reasons.

No wonder Jordan wants to be in charge of the Party of Law and Order. All his arguments are dung, dung.

[Kathranis]

I love how their only argument seems to be "You can't prosecute him, he was the President!!!" It's fucking ridiculous. Do they really think it's a good idea to literally be out here saying that he should be above the law? So much for the Party of Law and Order.™

Same fucking idiots who are currently chirping about how Biden should be prosecuted for whatever made up shit they're imagine, probably Hunter's laptop.

[Breccia]

Same fucking idiots who are currently chirping about how Biden should be prosecuted for whatever made up shit they're imagine, probably Hunter's laptop.

Yes, the Venn Diagram of Hypocrisy is pretty red in the middle. I'd ask our local Trump supporters to pick a side (is Biden immune, or should Trump be arrested?) but they're cowards and have me on ignore.

- - - Updated - - -

The NYTimes has an article on the issue. It starts out by reminding everyone that being fingerprinted and photographed is part of the deal, making a "Zoom indictment" not something that actually, you know, happens to real people. Trump might be different because he's a violent terrorist who inspires violent terrorist acts, but that's not the standard.

Also:

Security is also a looming issue in the office of the Manhattan district attorney, Alvin L. Bragg, a Democrat who is the first Black person to lead the office. Mr. Trump has lashed out at the district attorney, calling him a racist and saying his investigation is politically motivated.

Mr. Bragg and one of his top aides have already been the targets of threats on Mr. Trump’s social media platform. In an email to staffers on Saturday, first reported by Politico, Mr. Bragg assured prosecutors and other staff that he had been coordinating with the Police Department and court officials to ensure their safety.

“We do not tolerate attempts to intimidate our office or threaten the rule of law in New York,” he wrote. “Our law enforcement partners will ensure that any specific or credible threats against the office will be fully investigated.”

Force, or threats of force, to change the course of political events, is terrorism. Like, literally the definition. Death threats are a crime, terrorist death threats are a terrorist crime. Trump supporters are making terrorist death threats, they're terrorists.

Mr. Bragg’s security detail, which is staffed by New York Police Department detectives, may expand in the wake of Mr. Trump’s Saturday post; already the police have evaluated risks to his personal safety, according to a person with knowledge of the matter. In the past, the police department has adjusted its staffing based on its own assessment of the risk to a district attorney, another person with knowledge said.

In the wake of Mr. Trump’s public call for action, there were scattered signs that his followers were planning to protest on his behalf. The New York Young Republican Club announced on Sunday that it would hold a “peaceful protest of Alvin Bragg’s heinous attack” on Mr. Trump at an undisclosed location in Lower Manhattan on Monday evening.

On Saturday afternoon, the far-right provocateur Laura Loomer, who lives in Florida, declared on Twitter that she was organizing a pro-Trump rally outside Mar-a-Lago, Mr. Trump’s private club and residence in Palm Beach, to “protest Alvin Bragg’s WITCH HUNT.” But hours later, Ms. Loomer deleted the tweet and encouraged people to attend Mr. Trump’s upcoming political event in Texas instead.

On Twitter over the weekend, the far-right influencer Jack Posobiec called for Mr. Trump’s supporters to launch a “MAGA strike” and withdraw their money from banks en masse in an apparent effort to harm the financial system. Other Trump supporters circulated the main telephone number of Mr. Bragg’s office on social media and encouraged people to call and demand that charges not be filed against Mr. Trump.

Far darker messages--

"Question!"

...yes?

"If it's at an undisclosed location, how is it a protest?"

I mean...I guess they'll disclose it later?

"Can Trump supporters really crash a bank by yoinking out their savings?"

Well, most of them are broke, so no. I suppose some richer people could, but at this point, I don't think a lot of actual rich people are going to put that much effort into saving him.

The ultimate irony would be a bank that's giving Trump an extended loan crashing, causing the feds to take over and stop giving Trump extensions.

"Isn't orchestrating a bank run a crime?"

Actually I don't think so. I think you're allowed to tell people to do a legal thing, like "take our savings out". Unless he defames the bank or commits fraud I think it's okay.

"Isn't intentionally crashing the banks on behalf of Trump something that would hurt him in the long run? Like, he's publicly caused bank deregulation, wouldn't his supporters exploiting that to cause damage affect moderates and independents?"

Yes, if it worked.

"What does calling a police officer and asking them not to press charges actually do?"

It puts your name on a list, but has no effect on the process. It'd be fucking stupid.

Far darker messages were posted on pro-Trump chat boards like Patriots.win, a website formerly known as TheDonald.win, according to a review of social media by the The New York Times and by Advance Democracy Inc., a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization that conducts public interest research. In its final report last year, the House select committee investigating Jan. 6 determined that TheDonald.win served as an important nexus for people to discuss and make plans for the Capitol attack.

In the hours after Mr. Trump’s message was posted on Saturday, some posters on Patriots.win, mostly writing under pseudonyms, called for people to join together to protect Mr. Trump.

“Surround Mar-a-Lago or wherever he currently is,” a person named “sir-coffee” wrote, “and prevent law-enforcement from entering.”

Other posters called for a violent response to Mr. Trump’s arrest and said they would welcome harm being done to Mr. Bragg.

“I’d celebrate someone taking out that criminal DA,” someone using the name “trauncher” wrote.

"They do know the FBI is watching, right?"

It would not surprise me if the people encouraging violence are either undercover feds or Russians. But I think they're just people who know for a fact they won't be there, asking others to do something life-changingly stupid on their behalf. I mean, I like you guys, but if one of you said "go punch a cop" my answer would be reporting the post and blocking you, because that's criminal and insane. Unless it was clear you're being sarcastic.

"Can law enforcement find this 'trauncher'?"

Easily.

If Mr. Trump is indeed indicted and arraigned, it will be one of the most unusual and closely watched court proceedings in New York history. And accommodation may be made for the former president.

While it is standard for defendants arrested on felony charges to be handcuffed, it is unclear whether they will make an exception for Mr. Trump because of his status. Most defendants have their hands cuffed behind their backs, but some white-collar defendants who are deemed to pose less of a danger have their hands secured in front of them.

After an arraignment, Mr. Trump would likely be released on his own recognizance because an indictment likely would contain only nonviolent felony charges; under New York law, prosecutors cannot request bail in most such cases.

It may take several days for the former president to appear at the courthouse. Once he has been indicted, prosecutors are expected to contact the former president’s defense lawyers to negotiate his surrender, a common practice in white-collar investigations when prosecutors have been in touch with defense attorneys.

"Can Trump's hands fit in front of him to be cuffed? Or behind him? Dude's morbidly obese."

I'm sure they can work something out. He can't possibly be the first fat New York crime boss arrested.

That last part is news to me, and not a fan. "It's okay, his crimes were nonviolent, he can do whatever he wants" does not seem to be an equal application of the law. Dude has a plane and brags about how many passports he has. And I may have missed the part in law school that says "people arrested for crimes can show up whenever they want". Also he claims to be rich, he's claiming he can afford bail. But that's the law, so, whatever.

So Trump's upcoming, or not, arrest, or not, has more wrinkles than a cheap Chinese suit. Since the SS would be the ones physically doing it, and the SS would ensure that random-ass people with guns weren't around Trump as normal procedure, they could in theory just say "Mr. Trump, we're leaving now" and take him to a waiting car to a waiting plane. A random car leaving Mar-a-Lago would not be suspicious, cars leave all the time, usually infested with bedbugs. Trump's not going to be able to jump out the window or even yell for help in a car rated to carry his fat ass around. As long as the when wasn't disclosed, that would be clean and effective.

Also I don't know how protestors would block a helicopter landing inside the grounds. So a moat would be as stupid as it would be stupid.

In the end, Tr--

"You left out the best part."

You again!

"The best part is that Trump is hiding in Florida, but has an event planned for Texas. Both options are bad."

In the unlikely event that the former president refuses to surrender, he would put Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida, his leading but undeclared rival for the Republican nomination, in an awkward political position. Under law, the role of Mr. DeSantis would be essentially ministerial and he would have few legal options other than approving an extradition request from New York.

Still, if New York prosecutors sought Mr. Trump’s extradition, Mr. DeSantis would face an unenviable dilemma. He would be compelled to choose between authorizing an arrest warrant for Mr. Trump and inflaming his base, or attempting in some way to aide his Republican rival, and possibly face legal action as a result.

"Trump could try to weaken DeSantis, who as we've seen recently called him a whoremonger, by demanding DeSantis protect him. Something DeSantis does not want to do, of course, for many reasons. But Trump, a narcisist to the point of insanity, doesn't know that, he's incapable of grasping that, and might think screaming for asylum would--"

Please tell me you're going to call him a nacho cheese-dusted Hunchback of Notre Dame?

"Queso-modo? No. I was going to say, Trump thinks DeSantis hearing his cry for protection, and that cry failing, will hurt DeSantis' poll numbers. He might do it as a campaign strategy, literally so bereft of reason he doesn't realize how much it'd help his only realistic rival."

...and Texas?

"It would be far easier to grab Trump in transit than from a siege-like location if he's not compliant. If Trump is summoned to NYC and instead gets on a plane going anywhere else, he should expect to see Trump Tower out his window. It's not like Trump will be personally piloting his plane. Even if Abbott was against the issue, which I don't think he is, airports are pretty much federal space anyhow. He could land, be surrounded by 150 feds, and Abbott couldn't stop it if he wanted to."

"Basically, he has three options. Surrender quietly, beg for protection and fail, or hope that his supporters are willing to throw their lives away to protect him and fail. His handlers have been begging him to take the first option, as we've seen them say in public. The one who can do the most damage to Trump, is Trump."

And we're within a few days of finding out if even Trump is that stupid.

[Endus]

Yeah, so I didn't quote this in my earlier citation and in retrospect I should have.

@s_bushido is correct, this is the House GOP leader, not some random asshole like me, but someone in an actual position of power and authority, saying "you can't arrest someone who's running for office."

Bull.

Fucking.

Shit.

Just as a what-if, to make the point on how ludicrously corrupt anyone arguing for this is, imagine a hypothetical situation;

The last debate begins. It's well into campaign season, past the point where new candidates can be added to the ballots. The candidates walk on state, and then Trump (or whoever) comes in with an assault weapon, and guns down his opposing candidates, killing all of them. Walking over and putting a bullet in their heads to be sure in every case.

Can't charge 'im; he's running for office. Can't charge 'im after he's in office; he's both immune and he's just pardoned himself. Can't get anyone else on the ballot, so he wins unopposed, since all his opponents are now dead. Does any of this make sense? Because it sure seems like this is what they're arguing the system should be.

[Gabriel]

I dare say US presidential candidates duking it out Battle Royal style could be an interesting change.