[TV] The Wheel of Time

[bledgor]

I mean anyone expecting this show to get any better while the hack idiot named Rafe is in charge is naive at best. That clown has zero talent, but believes himself to be some genius while he meanwhile fucks up the story/world of one of the greatest modern fantasy settings. Sadly this has become typical of modern movies/shows/hollywood, as so many yes men/women fluff their ego's till they believe in their own "talent".

[Ragedaug]

So you expect a show to just change after the fact? This is all raging over diversity and not letting it go. It happened. It was changed. Move on.

I mean, not really. I have no expectations that they would change. The types of people that would make this level mistake aren't listening to good advice in the first place, so I don't expect them to learn from their mistakes, meaning they are going to keep repeating them. I have very low expectations of the show runners for the WoT series.

[rhorle]

I mean, not really. I have no expectations that they would change

Then why rehash it? If you know they won't change then what is the point in ranting about it yet again? Also don't try to rationalize it with "these types" when we all know that a show already in production won't be removing diversity and recasting majority of their cast.

[Ragedaug]

Then why rehash it? If you know they won't change then what is the point in ranting about it yet again? Also don't try to rationalize it with "these types" when we all know that a show already in production won't be removing diversity and recasting majority of their cast.

My apologies if you thought I was ranting. That was not my intention to give that impression. I was merely expressing an opinion.

I notice you label most of the disagreement with you as "rage". I understand it's not my place to suggest this, but if you don't mind...something you may want to try is reading comments from everyone, including folks who disagree with you, in a calm polite tone. That may positively impact your perception of the post, which may foster better back-and-forth communications.

[rhorle]

My apologies if you thought I was ranting. That was not my intention to give that impression. I was merely expressing an opinion.

What back and forth discussion should be fostered here? It is silly. It is a known change, it happened, move on. There is nothing to be gained by people continuing to complain about it existing in the show. You don't expect it to change but still want to complain about it existing. The show premiered in 2021 and the diversity of its cast was known earlier.

But hey I'm totally the bad one because I'm labeling you in a way you don't like for talking about topics you should have long ago got over.

[Xath]

I don't know why you act surprised when it has already been established that the show is more diverse then the books. There really is no reason to rehash diversity-based arguments.

The Books were actually more diverse significantly more so. There were actual defined cultures that slowly mixed together into a whole rather than every small town looking like New York. There are no defined cultures in rafe of time.

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They have already changed them to a gag and gorget. There is no reason to start inventing an argument about people you don't like just so you have something to rage about. Just move on from the show instead of going out of your way to get angry.

Yeah gagging and leasing a young black women is definitely way better and certainly won't lead to massive rage. Why don't you try actually reading the source material for once before defending absolute crap lol

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Many adaptions do. Get over it. Furthermore, there are plenty, PLENTY of people in this very thread that think that it changing the source material absolutely does make it a bad show and not popular, despite the obvious evidence to the contrary!

I haven't seen a single person in this thread who has shown any knowledge of the books still defending this mess after the hilarity that was the final episode.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The Books were actually more diverse significantly more so. There were actual defined cultures that slowly mixed together into a whole rather than every small town looking like New York. There are no defined cultures in rafe of time.

You don’t need to stick to physical characteristics to show a defined culture.

The show makes it pretty obvious with clothing if nothing else.

[rhorle]

Yeah gagging and leasing a young black women is definitely way better and certainly won't lead to massive rage. Why don't you try actually reading the source material for once before defending absolute crap lol

You would find an excuse for anything different from source is bad. You are still upset one and half years after the series preimere that it isn't a 1:1 or faithful adaptation. Let it go and move on. Why keep surrounding yourself with things you hate? It is even crazy that you still use "you haven't read the books" as an insult. I have read them but it is easier for you to continue to live in the fantasy you've built out of your hatred.

[Ragedaug]

What back and forth discussion should be fostered here?

I dunno. Seems like that's the entire point of fan forums. You say something, then I say something back. Then you respond to that, etc.

I'm not suggesting you'll care to respond to everything that's posted. Some of it (maybe most) will be inane, and nearly all of it will be more pertinent to someone other than ourselves, but I think it's important for us to disregard and move past that which doesn't seem intended for us and lets others address those points, if anyone cares to at all.

Some things are a big deal to some, they'll say as much. Instead of telling them that's it's not a big deal for you so they shouldn't post it, you can either ignore it, or simply post you have the opposite reaction and explain why.

Just seems bad form to tell people what they shouldn't post on a forum, since most of it can easily for be someone who is not you or me.

But hey I'm totally the bad one because I'm labeling you in a way you don't like for talking about topics you should have long ago got over.

I didn't say I didn't like it. It didn't bother me, it's just a mischaracterization and I even apologized and took ownership of the misunderstanding. I'm not sure why you are being as hostile towards me as it feels you are. And if I'm misunderstanding your intentions, I would again apologize. But yeah, it feels like you are being hostile towards me. /shrug.

[rhorle]

I dunno. Seems like that's the entire point of fan forums. You say something, then I say something back. Then you respond to that, etc.

So it was a lie when you said discussion should be fostered. The only thing you are interested in is post counts. We also know it is a lie because that is what was happening and you took issue with me "saying something back". It is always amusing when people logic themselves into a trap that is fine when they do it but bad when someone else does it.

What value is there in discussing diversity yet again? It happened. Even yourself labeled it a minor issue. If it isn't to rant about it existing in the series what is the purpose of posting about how bad it is?

[Ragedaug]

So it was a lie when you said discussion should be fostered. The only thing you are interested in is post counts. We also know it is a lie because that is what was happening and you took issue with me "saying something back". It is always amusing when people logic themselves into a trap that is fine when they do it but bad when someone else does it.

What value is there in discussing diversity yet again? It happened. Even yourself labeled it a minor issue. If it isn't to rant about it existing in the series what is the purpose of posting about how bad it is?

Now it just feels like you are trolling me. I don't agree with you about this TV show, but that doesn't mean we have to be enemies. Just means we are our own people and can have our own thoughts without the person we disagree with being a bad person.

[rhorle]

Now it just feels like you are trolling me. I don't agree with you about this TV show, but that doesn't mean we have to be enemies. Just means we are our own people and can have our own thoughts without the person we disagree with being a bad person.

So we can have our own thoughts without the person we disagree with being a bad person yet you imply I'm trolling you. You don't find it strange how you want to get along yet at the very same time sow discord with labels and stuff? It really seems like you got triggered over being told you are ranting about diversity and your responses are just hollow theater to justify to yourself why it is fine to complain about diversity.

Again, what valuable discussion can arise from "discussing" a series still being diverse for the second season? Is there value in saying the cast should be replaced because of a minor issue? It is a change that happened. It is done and over with. There are so many better things to discuss about the show but you've made it a point to that you should be able to endlessly complain about diversity existing in the show.

[rhorle]

This is how it goes with that poster. My recommendation is add him to your ignore list - just look at his post history.

It is amusing how you, and others, can't stop talking about me even after you ignore me. Just move on and let it go.

[Ragedaug]

So we can have our own thoughts without the person we disagree with being a bad person yet you imply I'm trolling you. You don't find it strange how you want to get along yet at the very same time sow discord with labels and stuff? It really seems like you got triggered over being told you are ranting about diversity and your responses are just hollow theater to justify to yourself why it is fine to complain about diversity.

Again, what valuable discussion can arise from "discussing" a series still being diverse for the second season? Is there value in saying the cast should be replaced because of a minor issue? It is a change that happened. It is done and over with. There are so many better things to discuss about the show but you've made it a point to that you should be able to endlessly complain about diversity existing in the show.

You say you aren't trolling me, but call me a liar who rants and rages. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take you seriously or engage in any type of honest dialog.

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This is how it goes with that poster. My recommendation is add him to your ignore list - just look at his post history.

I appreciate that advice. Tough to have a civil discussion with someone who's just out to attack.

[rhorle]

You say you aren't trolling me, but call me a liar who rants and rages. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take you seriously or engage in any type of honest dialog.

Because you are ranting about something. You call diversity a minor issue but say it should be brought up every time the series makes use of it. You refuse to answer what valuable discussion can come from yet again rehashing it's existence. You haven't even proposed a solution. You are complaining about it just to complain.

Are you saying you haven't been engaging in honest dialog up to this point? As in you were trolling this entire time? Isn't it strange how it is never you that could be bad in the discussion but always someone else? Lol.

[Katchii]

Many adaptions do. Get over it.

What exactly is there to "get over?" It is what it is, I'm not complaining or moaning about it, just making a statement.

Furthermore, there are plenty, PLENTY of people in this very thread that think that it changing the source material absolutely does make it a bad show and not popular, despite the obvious evidence to the contrary!

Then they're conflating being a bad show with being a bad adaptation. Those aren't the same thing, however you can dislike a show for being a bad adaptation. That doesn't affect other's like or dislike of it though. And clearly doesn't change how successful it can be.

I found it hard to be objective about the show and enjoy it because of how far from the source material they went and how much of a fan I am for the books. The fact the director went on record to say what a huge fan he was and wanted to do it justice to then go out of his way to reject advice and feedback from Brandon Sanderson and other series lore nerds and butcher the source material like this really didn't score any points with me.

As I said though, that's my criticism of it from an adaptation point of view.

That said, my wife watched it with me and she knew nothing of WoT and found it to be mediocre, confusing with disconnected stories that made very little if any sense to the larger narrative. The only reason she was able to continue watching it after the second episode and enjoy it at all was because I was able to provide context and information for things that the show talks nothing about.

So, based on that, I think it's a bad show. Others disagree, that's fine. Like what you like. /shrug.

[Ragedaug]

I found it hard to be objective about the show and enjoy it because of how far from the source material they went and how much of a fan I am for the books.

I had much the same problem. So I admit it could be a 'me' problem, since I was judging the show by the lens I have of the story in my mind's eye.

But even if they make a quality show, they still alienate so many of the core fans by marketing, "we are going to make a TV show of the story you love!!!", then after you watch it find out it's not the story we love, it just starts off with some similarities and the proper nouns match, but that's about it.

You can look at Game of Thrones, which started out very faithful to the books, and see the massive success it had. There's a reason the books have such loyal fans, which is because it is already a good story. So when you bring that same story and faithfully adapt it to screen, that good story will attract many fans.

When you makes random changes and are unfaithful to the popular story, you are starting with no cache. You had a rock solid foundation to build on, but threw that away and just hoped people would like your new story instead. Why pay all the money for the story rights, if you just want to write your own story? Just feels like bad decision making all around.

Game of Thrones generated a ton of buzz. Watch parties everywhere, with lots of folks talking about it. Then you take Wheel of Time and the new Lord of the Rings show, based on two book series that are more popular than the GoT(ASOIAF) books, but decided to tell their own story with someone else's characters and I just don't hear folks excited about either.

[Gumble]

This is how it goes with that poster. My recommendation is add him to your ignore list - just look at his post history.

I occassionally still see his posts when I haven't logged in yet. Nothing has changed and nothing of value is ever added by anything he has to say. Anyone who has bothered to read these threads for much time has ignored him by now.


The problem with the show is that its a bad adaptation AND a bad show. Even if you were not a book reader, the show is poorly paced, the characters make no sense, they jump through plot so much that UNLESS you're a book reader you have no idea what is going on, BUT if you ARE a book reader, you're pissed at the mockery of the story.

There is such a lack of storytelling that they have to put a massive amount of information into extra content to try to explain to non-book readers what is going on, but those say types of people aren't going to bother to watch that, they are just going to turn it off. The end of the first series, with how utterly bad that last episode was, easily turned off whatever viewers the show had left.

Saying the show was a hit.... lol, it wasn't even a hit by Amazon's standards, and those are incredibly low. The first 3-4 episodes did well, then it fell off a cliff. By the last episode, they had close to 1/4 of their starting viewership, and that episode turned most of those people off.


The people that support this show, including the ones in this thread, are mostly people that won't actually bother watching it, but support it out of spite of anything good. They want it ruined, and are happy to see it ruined, but aren't going to offer their time or money to support it. Eventually enough failures will teach that, but it's sad WOT had to fall prey to this time period.

Maybe the next turning of the wheel will give us a version of this story done well. Maybe this travesty is just there for better men to learn from and learn what not to repeat. Maybe the next turning we will get to love again...

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Why pay all the money for the story rights, if you just want to write your own story? Just feels like bad decision making all around.

Because they aren't talented enough to make something people would watch from scratch, but they are clever enough to convince people with money that they can use something people love to make something people will at least give a chance to. Sadly, too few people who are actually talented work in that industry anymore.

[Surfd]

Then they're conflating being a bad show with being a bad adaptation. Those aren't the same thing,

They may not be the same thing, but the Venn Diagram overlap of the two is pretty significant when the overall goal is: Bring the world of Wheel of Time to live action life, and someone decides a really shitty "adaptation" is the way to go about that. Even if the "show" is great, it is tainted by the fact that it's still a shit "adaptation" of the source material.

[rhorle]

Because they aren't talented enough to make something people would watch from scratch, but they are clever enough to convince people with money that they can use something people love to make something people will at least give a chance to. Sadly, too few people who are actually talented work in that industry anymore.

Pretty much all adaptations create their own story as they are not 1:1 from the source materials. You are just being salty at this point because the cleverness you deride is also the cleverness that made Peter Jackson into a superstar even though he has had few hits since. There are plenty of talented people that work in Hollywood. Has it always been black and white with you? That you liked every show up until now and it is industry that has changed?

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They may not be the same thing, but the Venn Diagram overlap of the two is pretty significant when the overall goal is: Bring the world of Wheel of Time to live action life, and someone decides a really shitty "adaptation" is the way to go about that. Even if the "show" is great, it is tainted by the fact that it's still a shit "adaptation" of the source material.

Even something widely praised as Lord of the Rings was said to be a poor adaptation by the son, and estate, of the original author. The taint you speak of is in the eye of the beholder rather then some universal constant.