Dragonflight 10.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Teriz]

We see her say the orcs are destroying the world and have to be stopped one way or another, If she were right then stopping the orcs would be no different then fighting the legion or the iron horde where there is no recourse other then standing down or death.

And the Orcs believed that the massive influx of Naaru doomed Draenor (which honestly made more sense). Either way, is the solution the eradication of all non-Draenei culture and religion on Draenor via getting brainwashed? The Draenei came to believe that the Orcs were an infestation on their own world.

The horde champion is also the person who can side with sylvanas take part in the war of thorns experiment on POW’s bash trapped humans in the head with shovels, ect. They ain’t moral or ethical.

Yeah, we’ll just call that bad writing on Blizzard’s part, among other issues. The Horde Champion is supposed to be a hero like their Alliance counterpart.

[Darkarath]

Ehhh.... they did make Survival from ranged into melee. That's the most obvious go-to answer.

Then we have the death knight. Those who enjoyed Unholy or Frost tanking in Wrath were forced to now move to Blood if they wanted to continue tanking, and those who liked blood DPS back in Wrath were forced to now go to Frost or Unholy for DPS.

And then we have the monk's Mistweaver spec, which went from the usual mistweaving healer to now needing to go fistweaving to be competitive.

IMO none of the examples given are comparable to what would be to change a current spec to a support one.

As I already stated, Survival changed from ranged DPS to melee DPS. So it stayed as a DPS spec. It is unlikely for me that Blizzard would change existing specs to support ones for the following reasons:

- There are people that enjoy current specs (Survival, Discipline, Enhancement...). Changing a spec to support would inevitably change how that spec is played. Some might enjoy it, but certainly a lot of players would miss how that spec used to be, and they would not be able to play the spec that they miss again. Backlash would come, and it is an absolutely unnecessary backlash, as Blizzard can create new specs.

- There are people that enjoy their DPS role. I say DPS, because if Augmentation Evoker is how a support role would work in WoW, it seems that DPS specs would be the support specs. Not healers, not tanks, but DPS. They might make a healer support in the future, but for now we just have Augmentation. If a DPS spec is changed to Support, even if we do not take into account my first point, that spec would lose between 20-40% of its DPS damage. I think that Augmentation Evoker does around 30% less damage than Devastation, so I guess that they are going with that direction in mind. There would be, again, inevitably, players that would feel veeeery bad about this. So again, Blizzard would be creating unnecessary backlash.

- What would be more attractive for us, as players? Look at all the hype that Augmentation Evoker has created. A new spec would always be a win-win situation for Blizzard. Many would want to try it out. But if you change a current spec to another role, for sure part of the playerbase is going to complain about it. It seems that Blizzard is getting smarter these days (actually, the WoW team, not Blizzard), so I do not think that they would make that mistake.

[Nymrohd]

IMO none of the examples given are comparable to what would be to change a current spec to a support one.

As I already stated, Survival changed from ranged DPS to melee DPS. So it stayed as a DPS spec. It is unlikely for me that Blizzard would change existing specs to support ones for the following reasons:

- There are people that enjoy current specs (Survival, Discipline, Enhancement...). Changing a spec to support would inevitably change how that spec is played. Some might enjoy it, but certainly a lot of players would miss how that spec used to be, and they would not be able to play the spec that they miss again. Backlash would come, and it is an absolutely unnecessary backlash, as Blizzard can create new specs.

- There are people that enjoy their DPS role. I say DPS, because if Augmentation Evoker is how a support role would work in WoW, it seems that DPS specs would be the support specs. Not healers, not tanks, but DPS. They might make a healer support in the future, but for now we just have Augmentation. If a DPS spec is changed to Support, even if we do not take into account my first point, that spec would lose between 20-40% of its DPS damage. I think that Augmentation Evoker does around 30% less damage than Devastation, so I guess that they are going with that direction in mind. There would be, again, inevitably, players that would feel veeeery bad about this. So again, Blizzard would be creating unnecessary backlash.

- What would be more attractive for us, as players? Look at all the hype that Augmentation Evoker has created. A new spec would always be a win-win situation for Blizzard. Many would want to try it out. But if you change a current spec to another role, for sure part of the playerbase is going to complain about it. It seems that Blizzard is getting smarter these days (actually, the WoW team, not Blizzard), so I do not think that they would make that mistake.

Heck I'd say this. Making a new spec for an existing class and completely changing how a spec works is very much the same amount of work. Class talent tree needs to be redone. Spec tree needs to be redone completely. New SFX needs to be created for the new spells. Mogs stay the same. The only differences are:
a) you have to design one additional tier set
b) you have to balance one additional spec
Now obviously these two are not minor. But they are negligible compared to creating an entire new class (which needs multiple specs, base class and spec skills, talent trees, its own mogs etc). Up front, changing a spec and adding a spec requires nearly the same resources.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

And the Orcs believed that the massive influx of Naaru doomed Draenor (which honestly made more sense). Either way, is the solution the eradication of all non-Draenei culture and religion on Draenor via getting brainwashed? The Draenei came to believe that the Orcs were an infestation on their own world.

if the goats are right and the orcs are destroying the planet which they kinda have a track record of doing unlike the light then ya destroying there culture would be the solution given what it’s lead to in both the main universe and AU.

Yeah, we’ll just call that bad writing on Blizzard’s part, among other issues. The Horde Champion is supposed to be a hero like their Alliance counterpart.

the campion would still be a hero just one from the perspective of the horde and given how consistently awful some of the horde has been they have been since classic that just makes there heroly duty’s includes being unethical

[ImTheMizAwesome]

if the goats are right and the orcs are destroying the planet which they kinda have a track record of doing unlike the light then ya destroying there culture would be the solution given what it’s lead to in both the main universe and AU.

I mean, AU goats might think that orcs are destroying the planet only because they don't want to convert to light, i woldn't want that either.

[RahEndymion]

While I don't expect Avaloren to be Kalimdor sized, I would hope it is a large area. Finding plausible reasons to split the continent up while retaining flight would let the final continent be large without forcing them to deliver everything in one go. Start with one big zone, add more at expansion release, have two more locked and available later in the expansion. 7 DF-sized zones would make for a fairly large continent.

Agreed.

The problem with the Island system is that it just worsens the narrative gap between expansions, especially for new players. If we assume that the 'dark side of Azeroth' is actually equivalent in size there or thereabouts to the current world map, and half of that was filled with a land mass, I think it would be really easy to design a workable outline of a mega continent.

If we include a lot of wilderness areas, perhaps literally empty with just creatures, they could even have the zones change over time (patch x.x has horde/ally camps pop up and eventually towns) and simultaneously give the impression of a real living and breathing world like vanilla.

There are plenty of thematic and practical ways to limit it to a 'expansion' sized area to start. Perhaps a giant in universe wall, manned by a culture that isn't part of the initial expansion, or perhaps a geographic barrier? Like the mists of MoP but actually shown in game. Maybe the 2nd release in this system has a giant inland lake at the edge of the border that can't be crossed because flying fatigue so you have to wait for the factions to literally build boats in land?

I would like to think that the dev's are working on something like this. Something truly ever-green but I very much doubt I am that lucky.

[JustMakingOnePost]

Legion introduced the Shadowlands with the new Chronicles book and setting up Sylvanas's handler. Two expansions later, we got Shadowlands.

Battle for Azeroth introduced the Dragon Isles into proper lore by having Wrathion go off looking for them. Two expansions later, we got Dragonflight.

Shadowlands introduced Turaylon as the leader of the Alliance (and dialogue of him discussing more Alliance lands to reconquer since they secured Stromgarde) as well as the Scarlet Brotherhood seeking to manipulate the Alliance. We also already knew Turalyon's god-mentor, Xe'ra the Light Mother, is leading Yrel's crusade across Draenor. Calia taking the throne of Lordaeron (which has since been retaken by the Forsaken) was warned about by Il'gynoth. We'll be seeing this in 11.0.

Dragonflight introduced Avaloren and the whole pirate fleet. We'll be seeing this in 12.0.

The Light expansion will introduce what comes after Avaloren. Avaloren will decide what comes after that.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I mean, AU goats might think that orcs are destroying the planet only because they don't want to convert to light, i woldn't want that either.

I’d hope blizzard would give them something legit to think the orcs are responsible even if they are wrong.

Like even the scarlet crusade thought every one else was infected by the plague even if they didn’t look like it so the goats having worse motivation then them would just be sad.

[Shadowferal]

I mean, AU goats might think that orcs are destroying the planet only because they don't want to convert to light, i woldn't want that either.

Um...Gul'dan says "Hi!"

[Nathanyel]

The horde champion is also the person who can side with sylvanas take part in the war of thorns experiment on POW’s bash trapped humans in the head with shovels, ect. Like even in the maghar quest it has you dealing with rebelling slaves I think, They ain’t moral or ethical.

The loyalist choice was an experiment because players had complained about always being shoehorned into the "good hero" role.
And the shovel quest was rather the exception that proves the rule, one of the literally only handful of quests where you can be unquestionably evil. Other than that, the game assumes you're a well-meaning helping hero, even if you're a Warlock, Death Knight or Demon Hunter.

[Teriz]

if the goats are right and the orcs are destroying the planet which they kinda have a track record of doing unlike the light then ya destroying there culture would be the solution given what it’s lead to in both the main universe and AU.

Isn’t that a biased view on your part? Yeah, the Orcs have a spotty track record, but you have an alien force saying they know what’s better for the planet than the natives. That isn’t problematic to you?

the campion would still be a hero just one from the perspective of the horde and given how consistently awful some of the horde has been they have been since classic that just makes there heroly duty’s includes being unethical

Yeah, and again it’s bad writing, because the Horde isn’t supposed to be “worse” than the alliance. It’s also bad writing because despite doing those atrocities, the writers just blamed it all on the Jailer and gave Sylvanas a retribution arc.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I mean, AU goats might think that orcs are destroying the planet only because they don't want to convert to light, i woldn't want that either.

I'd prefer both races not be condemned to doing bad. (I.E. Yrel and her zealots if they are going to happen at least make them a minority opinion but a loud one).

[Abraxan]

"Down to earth expansion" means Void vs Light now? Let's have a relaxed expansion for a bit, instead of yet another world ending situation. You can only do it so many times in a row before it loses any meaning.

Definitely agree going right from DF to light vs void seems sudden. I wouldn't be surprised if they did another expansion first.

I think Ion had a quote about how they'll still have cosmic expansions. I think those will be set primarily on azeroth after SL's reception. I would be surprised if they had an entire expansion set on another world/plane. But I could see light vs void set on azeroth, with patch content on k'aresh/wherever. Similar to the Legion model.

But basically yeah I do think they could make a "grounded" version of a light vs void expansion.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The loyalist choice was an experiment because players had complained about always being shoehorned into the "good hero" role.
And the shovel quest was rather the exception that proves the rule, one of the literally only handful of quests where you can be unquestionably evil. Other than that, the game assumes you're a well-meaning helping hero, even if you're a Warlock, Death Knight or Demon Hunter.

I mean you experiment on POW’s and slay sleeping Druids just because you can In classic, join up with the blood elfs who draining living beings for mana in tbc, do more POW experimenting in wrath, ect .

The loyalist route might have an experiment but the horde have always been in line with evil stuff like the shovel quest.

- - - Updated - - -

Isn’t that a biased view on your part? Yeah, the Orcs have a spotty track record, but you have an alien force saying they know what’s better for the planet than the natives. That isn’t problematic to you?

if the alien force turns out to be right then no not problematic at all.

Like the orcs between the two verses are on what 6 genocides or attempted genocides? With a track record that spotty there’s nothing left but threads at this point so correcting them would be long over due.

Yeah, and again it’s bad writing, because the Horde isn’t supposed to be “worse” than the alliance. It’s also bad writing because despite doing those atrocities, the writers just blamed it all on the Jailer and gave Sylvanas a retribution arc.

ok ya it’s un arguably bad writing given that they just said it was sylvanas fault and we are now all buddy buddy when there hordes track record should make that impossible.

- - - Updated - - -

It's still crazy that everyone doesn't care about the main subject of this thread.

I had forgotten that this was a thread about Yrel and her boobs.

At this point, you should create a topic instead of derailing this one.

Speculating about Yrel and the AU in a future expan is perfectly on topic even if you don’t like said speculation.

Like do you even post any thing that’s not trying to derail the thread by complaining?

[CopyX1982]

What I wouldn't do for a credible leak right now. I'm loving DF, & I really wanna know what's next for WoWs' 20th anniversary...

[Ielenia]

IMO none of the examples given are comparable to what would be to change a current spec to a support one.

As I already stated, Survival changed from ranged DPS to melee DPS. So it stayed as a DPS spec. It is unlikely for me that Blizzard would change existing specs to support ones for the following reasons:

- There are people that enjoy current specs (Survival, Discipline, Enhancement...). Changing a spec to support would inevitably change how that spec is played. Some might enjoy it, but certainly a lot of players would miss how that spec used to be, and they would not be able to play the spec that they miss again. Backlash would come, and it is an absolutely unnecessary backlash, as Blizzard can create new specs.

- There are people that enjoy their DPS role. I say DPS, because if Augmentation Evoker is how a support role would work in WoW, it seems that DPS specs would be the support specs. Not healers, not tanks, but DPS. They might make a healer support in the future, but for now we just have Augmentation. If a DPS spec is changed to Support, even if we do not take into account my first point, that spec would lose between 20-40% of its DPS damage. I think that Augmentation Evoker does around 30% less damage than Devastation, so I guess that they are going with that direction in mind. There would be, again, inevitably, players that would feel veeeery bad about this. So again, Blizzard would be creating unnecessary backlash.

- What would be more attractive for us, as players? Look at all the hype that Augmentation Evoker has created. A new spec would always be a win-win situation for Blizzard. Many would want to try it out. But if you change a current spec to another role, for sure part of the playerbase is going to complain about it. It seems that Blizzard is getting smarter these days (actually, the WoW team, not Blizzard), so I do not think that they would make that mistake.

That is literally the case of the death knight as I explained: Frost and Unholy were no longer tank specs, changing their role completely and Blood was no longer a DPS spec, changing its role completely.

[Makabreska]

It's still crazy that everyone doesn't care about the main subject of this thread.

I had forgotten that this was a thread about Yrel and her boobs.

At this point, you should create a topic instead of derailing this one.

I don't think anyone here wants/needs your constant thread policing. See off-topic? Report. It didn't do shit? Tough titties, maybe it is you who is wrong.

[Teriz]

if the alien force turns out to be right then no not problematic at all.

That's a big "if" though. Also this shows that Yrel makes a compelling villain, because we'd be more inclined to take her side over the Mag'har who were traumatized by her campaign on Draenor. Thrall will probably side with the Mag'har and the Ogres, while the Alliance higher ups like Turalyon, Khadgar, and Velen might side with Yrel. However some elements of the alliance like Alleria might be more inclined to believe the Arrakoa.

ok ya it’s un arguably bad writing given that they just said it was sylvanas fault and we are now all buddy buddy when there hordes track record should make that impossible.

Well it's like she's just forgiven for everything she did because supposedly the Jailer was pulling her strings all along. It 's just rather lame. Hopefully if Yrel is next, she gets killed at the end for doing planetary cultural genocide.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

That's a big "if" though.

is it though? The orcs do this stuff all the time and the maghar have embraced mass industrialization which we already know ruins the world around it like the goblins and gnomes do.

Like assuming they don’t pull a secret third cause every thing in points to it being the orcs over the goats given that the light has never been shown to have negative effects on any one or anything that wasn’t a demon or undead.

Also this shows that Yrel makes a compelling villain, because we'd be more inclined to take her side over the Mag'har who were traumatized by her campaign on Draenor. Thrall will probably side with the Mag'har and the Ogres, while the Alliance higher ups like Turalyon, Khadgar, and Velen might side with Yrel. However some elements of the alliance like Alleria might be more inclined to believe the Arrakoa.

at this point there really isn’t any way to justify any of the alliance siding with Yrel if they come to make war after years of peace even if that peace is none sense, Turalyon has already chosen his wife over following orders, Velan became disillusioned on argus by listening to Illidan, Khadgar would rather watch the horde burn the world then grow a pair.

Well it's like she's just forgiven for everything she did because supposedly the Jailer was pulling her strings all along. It 's just rather lame. Hopefully if Yrel is next, she gets killed at the end for doing planetary cultural genocide.

no shot they would kill Yrel after letting sylvnas slide, in all likely hood Xera would just assume direct control over her after she has a faith shaken and then we’d free her and kill Xera.

[Ielenia]

Which is irrelevant. Blizzard has made it clear that Yrel's force is a threat. They made that clear by having an entire race flee their home world to escape that threat.

No, they did not. Again, we have one side of the tale.

The same could have been said of Night Elves or Worgen before they were put into the Alliance.

How are those two even remotely comparable? Worgens are human, and used to be Stormwind's allies before the nation isolated itself, and the night elves had an intense dislike of the orcs who killed Cenarius, a dislike shared by the humans who had their lands ravaged by the same orcs.

And they're not reaching into WoD just to pull out those races. They're reaching into WoD to pull a popular character as an expansion antagonist.

Yrel is so highly unlikely to be an expansion antagonist it's safe to say she's not going to be. Again, it makes absolutely no sense due to her story in Warlords of Draenor.

You can't see a scenario where someone becomes so fearful of the Void that they believe that the light is the only salvation and everything else needs to be eradicated so that the light dominates everything else? There's real life examples of formerly good people doing exactly what Yrel would be doing via their insane religions convictions. People do evil stuff in the name of religion constantly and throughout history.

This isn't "real life". This is a fictional story being told, and by being a story it needs a logical structure, and making a character that we spent an entire expansion building up to be a good, caring leader-- again, that Velen would be proud of-- and making them an expansion's BBEG goes against said logical structure.

And the Horde champion experienced Yrel going psycho town themselves. That's Blizzard's way of telling you that yes, that plucky Draenei you knew back in WoD is crazy now.

Except: no. No, they did not. You're ignoring that we entered a devastated Gorgrond area, what was once a lush forest became desolate, and the draenei army's leader points out how the orcs brought ruin to the land. What you're doing here is akin to saying that the Alliance is evil because they invaded Dazar'alor without knowing the context and how the Horde invaded Stormsong Valley first and gleefully tortured and killed innocent civilians in Brennadam.

They would be a threat if they sought to force others into their religion by the sword. That is what Yrel is doing.

That is what the Mag'har claim Yrel is doing. There's a huge difference.

Well again, the pressing issue is that we also saw Yrel's zealotry first hand.

Except, we haven't. Again, we have zero background context on the situation aside from one side.