Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Aragnil]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if the Alliance gets High Elves, well, they would have essentially two blood elf races as opposed to the Horde's one. Say the Alliance gets them, well to balance it out, the Horde should get the San'layn. Horde gets vampire undead elves, light elves, and arcane elves. The Alliance would have Silver Covanant/Ranger elves, void-y elves, and druid elves.

[Traycor]

So I had an interesting thought. Because that 2014 interview with Ion mentioned High Elves, and he specifically said their artists got really excited about that... it's very possible (likely even) that a lot of design work for High Elves has already been done.

Unlike other Allied Races, they just need to sift through the work they already put in and decide how to implement them. Very interesting...

[Goldielocks]

I mean, its more common than you think.

It was more to the point that you’re equating their ignorance with your own bias. Some other Alliance player can have the exact opposite opinion as you.

Who’s right?

So I had an interesting thought. Because that 2014 interview with Ion mentioned High Elves, and he specifically said their artists got really excited about that... it's very possible (likely even) that a lot of design work for High Elves has already been done.

Unlike other Allied Races, they just need to sift through the work they already put in and decide how to implement them. Very interesting...

You’re forgetting the 2017 interview. It invalidates that entire thing.

[Theodarzna]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if the Alliance gets High Elves, well, they would have essentially two blood elf races as opposed to the Horde's one. Say the Alliance gets them, well to balance it out, the Horde should get the San'layn. Horde gets vampire undead elves, light elves, and arcane elves. The Alliance would have Silver Covanant/Ranger elves, void-y elves, and druid elves.

Does there need to be a balance? Currently the Alliance has ZERO trolls and the Horde has ZERO dwarves.

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It was more to the point that you’re equating their ignorance with your own bias. Some other Alliance player can have the exact opposite opinion as you.

Who’s right?

I am, mainly because I go by the lore and the way the game has presented High Elves and Ian apparently forgot the last couple of expansions or the lore as written.

People are free however to have an unfounded and wrong opinion on this. I won't stop you.

[Goldielocks]

I am, mainly because I go by the lore and the way the game has presented High Elves and Ian apparently forgot the last couple of expansions or the lore as written.

People are free however to have an unfounded and wrong opinion on this. I won't stop you.

Yeah uh, that’s not how opinions work.

But keep up your zealotry I’m sure you’ll succeed.

[Halefire94]

After seeing the BfA Lorderon testing, it looks like Void Elves play a pretty big role. I really don't see High Elves going forward.

[Aragnil]

Does there need to be a balance? Currently the Alliance has ZERO trolls and the Horde has ZERO dwarves.

Sure there does. Think about it like this, if the alliance were to get another new race that uses the same skeleton and model as blood elves, a race that has been on the horde side for years there would be an outcry from horde players on the subject. To alleviate this and to give the community what they want in High Elves and Undead Elves, keeping a balance to the elf distribution is key. The horde got the Night Elf skeleton, what if they got another night elf? Or horde got two races using the Worgen skeleton? Keeping things balanced with allied races would keep people happy. I realize that many people just don't care either way and just want to see more races added in.

[Traycor]

I think my biggest concern about high elves at this point is whether or not we'll get any of the cool designs that have been brainstormed in here. ;P

For the record, getting high elves at all would satisfy me (as long as it wasn't another compromise like void elves). I just find it funny that, all along I've been fine with just getting blood elves with blue eyes, but this thread has made me realize how interesting they could really be made if you really focus on all the little details. Tattoos/war paint like Warcraft II, scars to show them being more militant or desperate, options to show them mingling with humans, longer beards as a result of that or simply more of a practical thing. The more I think about it, the more I feel like blood elves are going to start needing some brainstorming to keep up. Of course, that's if those things are actually added.

Thanks Jokubas! And it looks like there's a glimmer of hope now for playable Ogres as well!

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The Silvermoon Scholars and High Elf Wayfarers in the rift likely hint towards expanding void elf customization to allow more high elven appearances down the line.

There's also the possibility that Blizzard did this to emphasize that High Elves and Void Elves are both still around. They're showing us that one did not replace the other, especially since we should have far more High Elves than we have Void Elves.

Personally I think that's where they are going with this.

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Adding these to the mix!

High Elves are part of the Alliance in Warfronts, appearing as NPCs (Spellweavers) and one of them being a major NPC, Arcanist Illira.

Good news as they are not being thrown to the wayside.

Bonus: They appear alongside Wildhammer Dwarfs.

This is extremely interesting.

I can see that Blizz might want to first dish out some of the more bizzare races for PR reasons and later include some more "boring" ones like Wildhammers and High elves.
At least it confirms that the High Elves are indeed within the Alliance and fighting with them against the Horde and Bloodelves.
They are also building some kind of an arc that shows High and Voidelves are getting along with each other pretty well.

So while it is again no confirmation, evidences and hints are getting more and more. If Blizz would really like to burry this topic and want to remain with their "There aren't enough of them left" stance, they would of course stop adding more and more high elves to the game. Especially fighting ones.

Personally I think the decision to add them has allready been made and we now see the first glimpses that leads to them. We will see more and more High Elves showing up and getting more important roles. There is just no reason in an Addon with allied races to add them into them into the game if you could fill that spot with allready existing allied races to make them more meaningfull, when you not plan to add them later.

[Traycor]

Just want to add that according to the still used, old high elf models of Quel'Dorei Wraiths in Goldenmist Village, high elves appear to have been able to have red eyes.

This might of course be an effect of being a wraith, though no other wraiths in the world appear to have this feature.

I assume the red eyes were an undead feature. It's kinda like the dark rangers that Horde is hoping for. The models for those have red eyes in game.

[Azrathel]

I assume the red eyes were an undead feature. It's kinda like the dark rangers that Horde is hoping for. The models for those have red eyes in game.

I'm not sure who this one is, but she looks alive to me.

[Phaelia]

I'm not sure who this one is, but she looks alive to me.

That one is a picture of what the blood Elf model was before BC, specifically the duo in Blasted Lands

[Traycor]

It seems to be what they looked like before Blizzard settled on the green eyed thing. Others have pointed out way way back in the thread that the green eyed/blue eyed status was written later, and wasn't included in WCIII or Vanilla WoW.

[Azrathel]

With keeping red eyed npcs in-game, albeit as ghosts, they haven't entirely removed red eyes as canon from high elves, have they? Maybe they have, and the ghosts' models are just kept in as a memorabilia.

[Strippling]

In my opinion, high elves should not be an allied race. A few reasons why:

1. Blood elves are an integral part of the Horde and form a part of the Horde's identity (whether you like it or not). Imo, playable high elves would claim a part of that Horde identity... Void Elves have already done that to a degree, but adding HE would further this. Although somewhat culturally different, the HE would look and play like a BE nonetheless. I have seen ideas thrown around as to how you could make changes to the HE model to differentiate it from BE, but without changing the BE skeleton (say to HE skeleton) you are going to end up with something that still pretty much looks and feels like a BE. Changing the skeleton to human or NE could be a solution, but I get the impression that many HE supporters would not like that.

2. Further to point (1), some HE supporters use the excuse that because VE are now alliance, they're now entitled to have altered BE models (because they're now alliance models too). I understand the direction this point of view is coming from, but I somewhat disagree. Regardless that VE are now alliance, the BE model IS and ALWAYS has been a Horde model in WoW. As a predominantly Horde player, I would feel cheated that one of my factions models has been given to the alliance (with more customization options... between VE and HE). I understand Nightborne were allied to the Horde and were given different customization options, but the same happened with BE -> VE. Simply stated, I would feel cheated if the alliance were given more options for the BE model than Horde, given that its a Horde model through and through. Also, some HE supporters argue that BE should never have joined the Horde, and rather HE should have been a playable alliance faction; this is an invalid point, because regardless of your views of "how the story should have been", that's how the story has been written and that is the current and correct Lore.

3. Popularity of HE. A worry for some is that adding HE might cause a faction imbalance in favor of the Alliance. Currently, the factions seem to have a relatively balanced population (albeit somewhat scaled higher toward the Horde... less than 5% difference). Some HE supporters claim that there is a lot of support/demand for playable HE. If this is true, then there is a risk (could be a low or high risk, but a risk nonetheless) of population imbalance. VE are by far the most popular allied race (for obvious reasons... ie. BE model on alliance), so assuming that HE would far more popular than even VE (given the large amounts of comments claiming VE were an A$$ pull and that it should have been HE as an AR) we have a risk of significant population migration to alliance. ON THE OTHER HAND, some HE supporters claim that the number of HE players would be low (because of possible rep requirements/achievements). If this is the case, then why should another BE model be given to the Alliance for a so called minority? Furthermore, this goes against the claims of some HE supporters that "there is a big demand for HE". So in summary, we could possibly have large numbers of players moving to alliance to play HE (ie. possible faction imbalance), or we could possibly not have many HE players (ie. AR race slot wasted for the Alliance).

4. VE exist. Imo, adding HE could intrude on VE development. A case can be made to argue that it can go along with VE development.. but on the same hand a case could be made that it might possibly steal the spotlight.

5. HE might be wanted by some, but what about the rest of the Alliance playerbase? How would the rest of the Alliance playerbase feel if ANOTHER BE/VE model is added to the Alliance? When that slot could be given to other races (such as Furbolg, NE Worgen, Mechagnomes, etc...) that could provide more variety of choices, as opposed to a blue eyed BE or a pale skinned VE. Just food for thought.

6. What equivalent would be given to the Horde? Some have suggested undead elves or Sen'Layn.. but neither are even remotely as frequently requested as HE. Plus, they are effectively just re-skins of existing Horde models, whereas the HE would be re-skins of the Horde BE model (ie. Horde model). See Point (1) before you say "it's an Alliance model now hur dur". To 'balance' the trade, imo, Undead Variants would be a fair trade. Variants as in the forsaken can choose to be an undead human, elf, gnome, dwarf, orc, etc...

7. Half Elf should not be included in customization options for HE. Imo, half elf and HE should be separate AR if the both are to be considered. Putting both options in customization would be an unfair inclusion.

So, if Blizzard are considering playable HE, I would humbly request that they consider:
1. the fact that you would be imparting a part of the Horde identity to alliance.
2. there could be a possible (emphasis on possible) faction imbalance due to HE. This risk should be considered and a suitable control measure implemented (this could be done by implementing rep requirements, only offering limited class options to HE, only offering limited customization options to HE)
3. the rest of the Alliance playerbase. How would they feel getting another BE/VE model as opposed to an AR that could provide some well accepted variety.

Before any HE supporters get offended at my comments, please note that this is my opinion on why I don't think HE should be playable. I accept that HE have a good lore foundation, have been allied with the Alliance for a while and that their presence is seen from time to time in various expansions. I just feel that adding playable HE is somewhat inconsiderate to the Horde population who take pride in their allied friends "The Blood Elves".

If HE become playable, then that's fine. As stated, I'm just expressing my opinion on the matter. My opinion could be seen as wrong to some, and right to others.. and that's okay... But before you point the finger and accuse me of "this or that", please remember that your comments are your opinion also and some may or may not agree with your opinion. I would appreciate that proper thought and design be put into this idea, if HE are to be considered. It isn't as easy as saying "we are entitled to them", you need to consider that the High Elven society has been a major part of the Horde for the last 13 years or so, in the form of BE. Blood Elves, although culturally and politically different from HE, are still part of the greater High Elven society. Compare it to the polynesian people... the polynesians of Hawaii (lets call them Hawaiin's) sailed west many years ago and landed on the shores of other polynesian islands. One land they arrived at is called New Zealand... and they polynesians of New Zealand are called Maori's, who are descendants of the Hawaiin's. Although there are some cultural differences between the two groups of people, they are both still part of the POLYNESIAN group. Likewise for BE and HE.

[Gurluas]

The red eyes were a Blood elf feature to begin with, all the vanilla models wearing red clothes were Belves.. All the High elves had blue or white eyes. If I remember correctly a Highborne in Azuremyst also used the vanilla Helf model. It doesn't mean much I think.

[Nappydwarf]

This is the first time I came into this thread, wtf is that shit on the first page

[Traycor]

One thing going in favor of playable High Elves:

The High Elves are sucking up much of the Allied Race discussion, and most anything said on the topic eventually comes back to High Elves. Blizzard clearly has to see this, and as a company they are going to want the community to focus on whatever they are releasing now. Most especially with the expansion about to release. A shadow that is controlling this much of the conversation can steer things in directions the marketing department does not want them to go.

And 'eliminating' High Elves would only make that worse.

It's possible that Blizzard will announce their intention to add High Elves at some nebulous point in the future, and make the announcement before the Expansion goes live. This would allow Blizz to redirect the conversation on the marketing items they are pushing right now, which is critical when an expansion is around the corner.

Just my random thoughts and speculation...

[Chemical Ellis]

Realistically, given the 'subrace' approach Blizz is taking, I don't think we can expect High Elves in the immediate future. At the very least, I don't think Wildhammers, Krokul, or Quel'dorei will begin to be considered Alliance side until after gnomes, worgen, and pandaren get their own subraces.

BUT the continuous discussion (and backlash to being given Blood Elves twice) goes beyond anything that can be ignored. If more allied races are coming after each existing race has a 'counterpart,' I wouldn't be surprised if High Elves were near the top of the roster.

One thing that I haven't really seen discussed, and might be a good angle on 'reintroducing' High Elves to the Alliance - what caused the original schism in Quel'Thalas society in the first place? The break between High and Blood Elves was formalized in the aftermath of the Third War, but it existed since at least the Second - Silvermoon was only ever nominally a member of the Alliance, committing the bare minimum to pay lip service to an ancient obligation, while those elves who actually DID fight and die alongside humans and dwarves acted independently of their kingdom's directives, and had already broken with Silvermoon culture. Honestly, how many named Blood Elf npcs are there who ever actually fought for the Alliance (and not just Quel'thalas)? I can't think of any.

We know Alleria led this 'rogue' contingent. Many of them ended up journeying to Draenor in the Sons of Lothar. At least a couple of those left behind helped form the Silver Covenant. And Alleria abandoned the position of Ranger General - which rightfully should have been hers - to safeguard her independence. But we don't really know why. What caused such a significant portion of Quel'thalas society to turn their back on their insular and patrician culture and dedicate themselves to a duty alongside those who were largely strangers to them? Could there have been some tension between the Farstriders and the Sunstrider dynasty going back even before Kael? And would this break have manifested, even without the Alliance or the threat of the Horde?

A question worth answering - what does it mean, to a High Elf, to be a High Elf? Their identity has been divorced from that of their kingdom for decades. So, what is the kernel of their culture that defines them? And how does it clash with the values of Silvermoon?

[Traycor]

One thing that I haven't really seen discussed, and might be a good angle on 'reintroducing' High Elves to the Alliance - what caused the original schism in Quel'Thalas society in the first place? The break between High and Blood Elves was formalized in the aftermath of the Third War, but it existed since at least the Second - Silvermoon was only ever nominally a member of the Alliance, committing the bare minimum to pay lip service to an ancient obligation, while those elves who actually DID fight and die alongside humans and dwarves acted independently of their kingdom's directives, and had already broken with Silvermoon culture. Honestly, how many named Blood Elf npcs are there who ever actually fought for the Alliance (and not just Quel'thalas)? I can't think of any.

We know Alleria led this 'rogue' contingent. Many of them ended up journeying to Draenor in the Sons of Lothar. At least a couple of those left behind helped form the Silver Hand. And Alleria abandoned the position of Ranger General - which rightfully should have been hers - to safeguard her independence. But we don't really know why. What caused such a significant portion of Quel'thalas society to turn their back on their insular and patrician culture and dedicate themselves to a duty alongside those who were largely strangers to them? Could there have been some tension between the Farstriders and the Sunstrider dynasty going back even before Kael? And would this break have manifested, even without the Alliance or the threat of the Horde?

A question worth answering - what does it mean, to a High Elf, to be a High Elf? Their identity has been divorced from that of their kingdom for decades. So, what is the kernel of their culture that defines them? And how does it clash with the values of Silvermoon?

Excellent questions! These ideas, going all the way back to WCII and likey before, could be well worth answering. Sounds like a Warcraft novel in the making!

[Deleted]

One thing going in favor of playable High Elves:

The High Elves are sucking up much of the Allied Race discussion, and most anything said on the topic eventually comes back to High Elves. Blizzard clearly has to see this, and as a company they are going to want the community to focus on whatever they are releasing now. Most especially with the expansion about to release. A shadow that is controlling this much of the conversation can steer things in directions the marketing department does not want them to go.

Well they said it is a fan favourit.
Also with Jermemy Feasle in the interview directly mentioning High Elves after he asked for feedback for future races, this clearly shows that eventually every feedback and discussion about allied races will be focused on high elves. Blizz knows this.

I am pretty sure they didn't know that their take on high elves with void elves would not satisfy the fans. I think they were surprised themselves and now realized that only real High elves will be able to satisfy that desire, well and now they try to figure out what to do.

Like I said the feedback has been heard loud and clear and it now comes to the question what Blizz wants to do about it. They know that every "almost High-Elves" solution wouldn't work but they also can't just get rid of void elves now.
So I think Blizz is in a tough spot here. They know they have to do something but that doesn't really fit in the current scheme and stuff like the addition of more and more high elves and interviews where they are mentioned is nothing that helps Blizz to cool the demand down.

I really, really can't believe Blizz is not allready in the process of adding them.
Blizz normally doesn't hint on stuff that isn't really going to happen, they know their player base and the expectation even the slightest hint creates. And in case of High Elves there have not only been whispered hints, there were thunderstrucs of hints. Blizz is currently even shoving High Elves in every situation the only thing that currently is missing is a clear: Yes we're doing it.

But a senior designer saying "You have my vote" in terms of High Elves is very, very unusual. Muffinus directly mentioning High Elves in a situation where expectations are extremely high and charged and the NPCs added, is just too much for Blizzard in a very short amount of time for it to be a joke or anything unspecific.