Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[FlubberPuddy]

For this quote to be valid for high elfs then high elfers must subsequently admit that "blood elfs are the main high elf group in WoW"... which is what me and @Obelisk Kai have been saying all along. Yet several high elfers have disputed this and respond with "blood elfs are not high elfs". So, for high elfs to "qualify" as an AR it would be recognition that blood elfs are the main group for the "high elf" race in WoW. Which is where the blurring of faction lines becomes an issue, given that there are next to no differences between blood elfs and high elfs, apart from political views and blue eyes (of which blood elfs could potentially have blue eyes too in the future). And like I said earlier, the woodland theme that high elf fans have been parading doesn't fit high elfs as a collective whole, given that the majority of alliance aligned high elfs (already being an extremely small group) live in Dalaran (a majestic and magical city). Where do blood elfs live?? In a majestic and magical city too... so there is very little between the two groups (mainly the only difference is one serves the Horde and the other serves the Kirin Tor and occasionally the Alliance). Highvale elfs are extremely small in number and do not represent the main group of alliance high elfs (the SC who live in a majestic magical city), so it'd make no sense to base the theme of high elfs around this small group who barely work with the alliance to begin with

Not all "high elfers" consider "High Elves the main elf group in WoW", I've always said that kind of dumb, the kind of talk disputing "the true high elves". It happens on both sides.

But about the main high elf group being Blood Elves, sure whatever. I think you'll find that vast majority of High Elf fans like that High Elves are this downtrodden group that managed to uphold their ideals even at the cost of their lands/family. Their loyalty and friendship with the Alliance is something a lot like. That they're seen as traitors to Blood Elves doesn't have any bearing. So this point of acknowledgement is pretty weird.

People for instance don't care that Vulpera are a ragtag group of foxes that have no kingdom and are basically scavengers. Not everyone in the game wants to play an elf in a "majestic and magical city". Since there's two of those types of Elves on Horde (Nightborne and Blood Elves), it's not unreasonable for there to be two of another type, "woodsy", for Alliance.

Woodland theme works perfectly well for High Elves, just because there's a ton of them in Dalaran isn't be all end all of their theme. Regardless of being in Dalaran they are often depicted more times as Rangers, there's lodges out among Alliance lands that High Elves created.

Just because Dalaran exists doesn't mean Blizzard can't create a new location for them. Look at Void Elves, Blizzard created a "Rift" in the middle of fuck nowhere to give Void Elves a place. Void Elves who are former Blood Elves didn't have to have a "magical and majestic city" just because Blood Elves have one.

These arguments you're using fall apart when you apply them to the other AR, which means it's not a good argument if it has to be that specific.

And you're harping on numbers when Void Elves themselves didn't exist until they were made an AR. Even then were described as a "squad". There's already an imgur album going around of 100s of High Elf NPCs in game, which btw isn't to say you take in-game numbers as literal because Stormwind isn't just a city with 200 some NPCs and neither is Goldshire just an Inn and Blacksmith Forge.

But it's meant to point out there's less Void Elves than High Elves and Void Elves were still able to become an Allied Race.

Again, if you're using arguments that don't even work on Void Elves, when they actually exist, then Void Elves shouldn't have become an Allied Race either. What does that say? That means Blizzard ultimately didn't give a crap. Exactly as they said, Void Elves came about because they wanted "to do something new and cool".

So all this discussion is showing Blizzard, "hey you can also do something 'new' and cool with the High Elves on the Alliance" with all these customization and model suggestions.

[Hallowseve17]

I just want to say after I've been mostly neutral on this subject for years, I can now say you all have swayed me. I support high elves as an allied race. They are an already established allied race and for me, the more options the merrier. What's funny is part of my change is sides came from Volunteer Guard Day. I chose to /salute the Dalaran high elf guards for kicks and giggles, made a spontaneous TRP profile for said appearance, and was having a blast roleplaying as a Silver Covenant mage dispatched to Stormwind to help defeat the Horde invaders.

[Obelisk Kai]

Back in BC, the blood elves had a more slender model than they have today. It also might be fun to see High Elves with something closer to that.

No, that was during the burning crusade beta and was changed by the time it hit live. As someone anticipating Blood Elves at the time I was following the development fairly closely.

There are two schools of thought as to why it was changed. The first is that the original super slender model was considered too effeminate by a subset of players and that Blizzard bulked up the Blood Elves a little to appease them.

The second is that that model was tearing, with the skeleton poking through the skin as it was animating and so Blizzard bulked it up a bit in order to prevent that happening. As to which is true it is difficult to say, the event is over a decade ago. Could be a case that both are true, although if Blizzard ever did comment on it today they would clearly say it was the model tearing.

Also, hasn't the discussion been that the more 'outdoorsy' and 'less magically influenced' Alliance High Elves would be bulked up compared to Blood Elves? Now I of course absolutely dispute that premise given that not every Blood Elf is a caster and many (Warriors, Monks, Rogues, Hunters, Paladins, likely the majority of the civilian population) would be living extremely physically active lives but it is internally inconsistent on your part to suggest a less bulky model.

It is consistent however with being desperate to find any angle to say Alliance High Elves are physically different from Blood Elves to justify being an Allied race, but given that is not the case you will struggle to find one.

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They are an already established allied race .

They are not an established allied race. The Alliance allied races are the Void Elves, Dark Iron Dwarves, Kul Tiran Humans and Lightforged Draenei . You cannot confer a status that is codified in game upon a group of NPCs simply because you wish to. You have as much ability to say Alliance High Elves are an allied race as you do to say they are a core race i.e zero.

[Garfurion]

"Allied races are, from a design point of view, alternate versions of the main races. They mostly use the skeleton of an existing race, but altered and with a different model. They also have their own racial abilities. Allied races get a full character kit including their own emotes, flirts, funnies, exertions, and so on.[1]"

That quote from WoWpedia does not constitute an official lore source so you shouldn't quote it directly. Blizzard never said Allied races are alternate versions of main races, I don't think they even use the term "main races". In this case what you quoted is an interpretation of a single or multiple persons who write the wowpedia texts.

If you want to a get a real feel for how Blizzard sees allied races you have to check the original Blizzard sources that wowpedia texts are based on.

I'm not sure if the wowpedia text mentioned the Blizzcon 2018 Lost Codex interview but starting from around 12:35 they actually asked the question what designates a race to be an allied race, and Alex Afrasiabi never relates them to existing races or "main races". I also think there are other interviews where they state there is no 1-1 relationship needed between an existing playable race and a new allied race.

"Q: What designates a race to be an Allied race, does it follow like, you got tauren - high mountain tauren and lightforged and general Draenei, is there a sort of pattern or could there be a curveball like Mok'Nathal or Vrykul or are you guys sticking to a pattern.

A: There is no pattern...I think what we want to chase for is cool and what in a lot of cases is contextually appropriate from a time-line perspective, so mainly what's cool. Now are there other hurdles of difficulties for us to overcome whenever we are creating a playable race, because at the end of the day that is exactly what an Allied race is and the answer of course is yes."

...The large Kul Tiran male and female that are now allied races that we just talked about I believe those are pretty much new races and what that means is they're new skeletons that we've reanimated or animated, sure they may have some of the older human animations, which btw way they're human so it makes perfect sense but they also have a whole bunch of new animations...." -- source The Lost Codex

I added the last quoted part because it gives a nice description what according to Blizzard is a race: a skeleton that they have animated.
In the case of Kul Tirans particularly they were completely created from scratch and as such took as much time to make as Pandaren, Worgen, etc...

[DeicideUH]

"Q: What designates a race to be an Allied race, does it follow like, you got tauren - high mountain tauren and lightforged and general Draenei, is there a sort of pattern or could there be a curveball like Mok'Nathal or Vrykul or are you guys sticking to a pattern.

A: There is no pattern...I think what we want to chase for is cool and what in a lot of cases is contextually appropriate from a time-line perspective, so mainly what's cool. Now are there other hurdles of difficulties for us to overcome whenever we are creating a playable race, because at the end of the day that is exactly what an Allied race is and the answer of course is yes."

...The large Kul Tiran male and female that are now allied races that we just talked about I believe those are pretty much new races and what that means is they're new skeletons that we've reanimated or animated, sure they may have some of the older human animations, which btw way they're human so it makes perfect sense but they also have a whole bunch of new animations...." -- source The Lost Codex

I added the last quoted part because it gives a nice description what according to Blizzard is a race: a skeleton that they have animated.
In the case of Kul Tirans particularly they were completely created from scratch and as such took as much time to make as Pandaren, Worgen, etc...

Very interesting. I also remember they answered a Q&A during Blizzcon 2017 by saying that allied races were called such because they were not meant to be sub-races. This also shows why the best method to predict future allied races is to search for models that are too detailed and complex for NPCs: model cost too much resources for Blizzard to create complex playable-quality model just for no bigger purpose. Vulpera and junker gnomes are almost sure to be the next ones due to that.

[Hallowseve17]

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They are not an established allied race. The Alliance allied races are the Void Elves, Dark Iron Dwarves, Kul Tiran Humans and Lightforged Draenei . You cannot confer a status that is codified in game upon a group of NPCs simply because you wish to. You have as much ability to say Alliance High Elves are an allied race as you do to say they are a core race i.e zero.

Whoa, man. What I meant by established is that they have been in the Alliance for years. I know they aren't an "established allied race". And I said my reasoning is the more options the merrier, I'd rather have wildhammer dwarves, broken, ogres, taunka, forest trolls, and others before we get more elves. We've seen eye to eye on things in the past, don't think I'm some mindless and fanatical high elf supporter now, just because my stance has changed.

[Aldo Hawk]

Very interesting. I also remember they answered a Q&A during Blizzcon 2017 by saying that allied races were called such because they were not meant to be sub-races. This also shows why the best method to predict future allied races is to search for models that are too detailed and complex for NPCs: model cost too much resources for Blizzard to create complex playable-quality model just for no bigger purpose. Vulpera and junker gnomes are almost sure to be the next ones due to that.

Yeah butt, at the same time Blizzard stated that more detailed models for NPC is something they search for, i believe it to be a thing Ornyx said.

Whelp, i searched for literally half a minute, it was easy: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...age=6#post-106

From his official source Blizzard is making more detailed NPCs, so they have better tools for story content.

This means new player-like NPCs are just NPCs 2.0, i think this could also be a backup to have work already done if they want to have it even easier to release a new allied race.

[Obelisk Kai]

Whoa, man. What I meant by established is that they have been in the Alliance for years. I know they aren't an "established allied race". And I said my reasoning is the more options the merrier, I'd rather have wildhammer dwarves, broken, ogres, taunka, forest trolls, and others before we get more elves. We've seen eye to eye on things in the past, don't think I'm some mindless and fanatical high elf supporter now, just because my stance has changed.

The High Elf race left the Alliance, as shown in the Warcraft 3 'Rise of the Blood Elves campaign' when they were betrayed by Grand Marshal Garithos, who sentenced them to death and the Kirin Tor of Dalaran who happily stood by and did not intervene. That the High Elf race had rechristened themselves as Blood Elves does not make them any less High Elves. Confusing this group with the small remnant of thalassian elves who rejected the path the vast majority of their people are on does a disservice to the overall storyline.

I am also someone who believes in greater diversity improving the factions and the more options the better. However, what is the point in offering an option that is already available. Blood Elves are High Elves. High Elves are playable. The request for Alliance High Elves is therefore not a request for something new, it is the desire for a duplicate of a race that is currently playable and is a part of the Horde. As important as options for players are, ensuring the factions themselves remain as distinct from each other as possible takes precedence. It shows a lack of respect to the Horde to want to play a Horde race without having to commit to the Horde faction.

Regarding your stance having changed, and that we have seen eye to eye in the past, I can only conclude that either you have created a new account (unlikely given the join date of July 2014) or that you have renamed yourself. Unfortunately, I have no idea who you were previously and have no baseline for comparison on any previous agreements.

[DeicideUH]

Yeah butt, at the same time Blizzard stated that more detailed models for NPC is something they search for, i believe it to be a thing Ornyx said.

Blizzard will twist the answer if the truth would spoil future plans. Back in 7.3, when asked if lightforged draenei would be available (as customization options) to players, Blizzard said that they were just meant to be a new kind of draenei that they wanted to show to players.

Ornyx may said something about more detailed models, but then, why only vulpera and junker gnomes? Where are the complex models for sethrak, the quillboar, the naga? The treatment is very uncommon, and we know making such models is way costlier so that answer feels like a handwave to not spoil the future allied races.

[La]

The High Elf race left the Alliance, as shown in the Warcraft 3 'Rise of the Blood Elves campaign' when they were betrayed by Grand Marshal Garithos, who sentenced them to death and the Kirin Tor of Dalaran who happily stood by and did not intervene. That the High Elf race had rechristened themselves as Blood Elves does not make them any less High Elves. Confusing this group with the small remnant of thalassian elves who rejected the path the vast majority of their people are on does a disservice to the overall storyline.

I am also someone who believes in greater diversity improving the factions and the more options the better. However, what is the point in offering an option that is already available. Blood Elves are High Elves. High Elves are playable. The request for Alliance High Elves is therefore not a request for something new, it is the desire for a duplicate of a race that is currently playable and is a part of the Horde. As important as options for players are, ensuring the factions themselves remain as distinct from each other as possible takes precedence. It shows a lack of respect to the Horde to want to play a Horde race without having to commit to the Horde faction.

Regarding your stance having changed, and that we have seen eye to eye in the past, I can only conclude that either you have created a new account (unlikely given the join date of July 2014) or that you have renamed yourself. Unfortunately, I have no idea who you were previously and have no baseline for comparison on any previous agreements.

If Blood Elves were High Elves and Void Elves are also Blood Elves, which were High Elves, then why does it not make sense for the Alliance to have High Elves? Shouldn't the Alliance have just gone to the Horde to play Blood Elves if they wanted to play Void Elves? It's not like Blizzard can write a story to justify a small fraction of them now being part of the Alliance, or simply being neutral. High Elves were requested, and we were given Void Elves, which no one asked for.

[Aldo Hawk]

If Blood Elves were High Elves and Void Elves are also Blood Elves, which were High Elves, then why does it not make sense for the Alliance to have High Elves? Shouldn't the Alliance have just gone to the Horde to play Blood Elves if they wanted to play High Elves? It's not like Blizzard can write a story to justify a small fraction of them now being part of the Alliance, or simply being neutral. High Elves were requested, and we were given Void Elves, which no one asked for.

There's also this thing with Pandaren that shows a race only belongs to a faction because of limitations of the game.

You can't cross faction with your character as it is, you have to change your race.

Pandaren also demonstrates both factions can have the same truly carbon copy race and still don't make the sky fall and summon hell in our plane of existence.

HE do not even share lore since the split and them fighting blood elves makes sense a percentage equal to Zimbabwe's inflation more. Also by default allied race treatment they would definitelly have different looks applied to them.

Most of the concerns are already covered really, it's just a matter of not liking it.

[FlubberPuddy]

That quote from WoWpedia does not constitute an official lore source so you shouldn't quote it directly. Blizzard never said Allied races are alternate versions of main races, I don't think they even use the term "main races". In this case what you quoted is an interpretation of a single or multiple persons who write the wowpedia texts.

If you want to a get a real feel for how Blizzard sees allied races you have to check the original Blizzard sources that wowpedia texts are based on.

Haha, thank you for the correction. I was being a bit lazy and thought the source at the end [1] had the information, but didn't proof check it. Mistake on my part!

Whoa, man. What I meant by established is that they have been in the Alliance for years. I know they aren't an "established allied race". And I said my reasoning is the more options the merrier, I'd rather have wildhammer dwarves, broken, ogres, taunka, forest trolls, and others before we get more elves. We've seen eye to eye on things in the past, don't think I'm some mindless and fanatical high elf supporter now, just because my stance has changed.

Hey man don't take it personally. Obelisk just likes to be aggressive about any new poster coming in to support to the thread to scare em off in hopes they don't increase the support for High Elves.

At the end of the day, as you said - it's just about getting more options and customization into the game. Obelisk's own argument about faction integrity falls apart because Void Elves already have the same exact model as Blood Elves. This means now both Alliance and Horde have ownership of that Thalassian model, and since High Elves exist as unplayable NPCs on Alliance then it's only natural to ask for that customization option.

The factions still remain distinct overall, we're never going to see Orcs on Alliance or Dwarves on Horde but Elves as precedent set by Blizzard have been exchangeable.

There's also this thing with Pandaren that shows a race only belongs to a faction because of limitations of the game.

You can't cross faction with your character as it is, you have to change your race.

Pandaren also demonstrates both factions can have the same truly carbon copy race and still don't make the sky fall and summon hell in our plane of existence.

HE do not even share lore since the split and them fighting blood elves makes sense a percentage equal to Zimbabwe's inflation more. Also by default allied race treatment they would definitelly have different looks applied to them.

Most of the concerns are already covered really, it's just a matter of not liking it.

Hey, you're back. Stop getting banned! I like the tone of your recent responses, keep it up that way lol

[Varx]

There's also this thing with Pandaren that shows a race only belongs to a faction because of limitations of the game.

You can't cross faction with your character as it is, you have to change your race.

Pandaren also demonstrates both factions can have the same truly carbon copy race and still don't make the sky fall and summon hell in our plane of existence.

HE do not even share lore since the split and them fighting blood elves makes sense a percentage equal to Zimbabwe's inflation more. Also by default allied race treatment they would definitelly have different looks applied to them.

Most of the concerns are already covered really, it's just a matter of not liking it.

I know most of my posts are anti helf but I need to clarify that I'm only anti helf as an AR.

I believe helves can exist only of given the panda treatment and give the horde a new prettyish race that can be paladins to compensate. Best race that fits this would be vrykul.

Update eversong woods, DK intro and DH intro to include more races.

Give Kvaldir AR to alliance to balance the nightborne and a panda AR to balance the velves.

Rename the blood elf race to Thalassian Elf and name the horde faction Sin'dorie and alliance Quel'dorie.

Both have all eye color options and the story in eversong, whatever it would be, would end with you choosing your faction.

The truth of the matter is that lore wise houjin = blood elf and toushui = high elf. The only difference is that helves aren't playable.

Making helves as an AR is boring and a waste. The neutral path has the potential for more content added than just another copy paste of a core race.

[FlubberPuddy]

Confusing this group with the small remnant of thalassian elves who rejected the path the vast majority of their people are on does a disservice to the overall storyline.

No one is confusing the groups. People know who the High Elves are, and who the Blood Elves are. This is evidenced by the Blizzcon 2013 video I shared where Chris Metzen asked for any High Elf fans in the crowd and besides one or two people the crowd was silent overall.

I am also someone who believes in greater diversity improving the factions and the more options the better. However, what is the point in offering an option that is already available. Blood Elves are High Elves. High Elves are playable. The request for Alliance High Elves is therefore not a request for something new, it is the desire for a duplicate of a race that is currently playable and is a part of the Horde. As important as options for players are, ensuring the factions themselves remain as distinct from each other as possible takes precedence. It shows a lack of respect to the Horde to want to play a Horde race without having to commit to the Horde faction.

The point is being able to play as and experience the story of the High Elves who split off from the Blood Elves. While they have a shared history up until that split, (which btw so do Void Elves - who even more so have further Blood Elf shared history up until they're voided out so this point is truly moot) the story of the "High Elves who took back their name" then veers off into different territory.

People for some reason assume that Alliance High Elves had it easy, had the comforting lifestyle of the human kingdoms and etc, where is this explicitly stated or shown? How do we know they weren't facing their own hardships with having to leave their home and family behind? What was it like those couple months/years after the split happened?

We see often High Elves either aiding or fighting in the name of the Alliance. What grew this loyalty? How did the Alliance react to receiving these bunch of High Elves (similar to how we're seeing the effects of Teldrassil refugees)?

What was it like being away from the Sunwell? Having to fight the urges of magical withdrawal with constant objects or through sheer willpower?

Plethora of things to be explored by the High Elves on Alliance. Stuff that Blood Elves narrative wouldn't be privy to, so saying that it's "to play a Horde race without having to commit to the Horde faction" is pretty silly.

Especially since Horde received a version of Night Elf Highborne that they get to experience fully now without having to play in the Alliance. And also which btw, "play a Horde race without having to commit to the Horde faction" is actually on the nose for what Void Elves are.

Void Elves are literal Blood Elves who just harnessed a chaotic energy, they carry the Blood Elf history that occurred all throughout TBC so they're much closer to Blood Elves in terms of narrative. The Void Elf narrative even mirrors a similar one that early TBC Blood Elves had: power at any cost to protect their people.

So it is very very strange to come at playable Alliance High Elves as if they're so damaging if made playable when these sorts of things have already occurred to the Alliance faction and also to the Horde faction (through Void Elves).

Saying "we don't want Blizzard to make the same mistake again" is also not a strong argument because we see sorts like this:

"Future allied races
There are no immediate plans for Wildhammer dwarves, but it is possible in the future.[9]"

If a 3rd dwarf type is possible, that shatters any preconceived notion that a third type of any race is impossible.

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Making helves as an AR is boring and a waste. The neutral path has the potential for more content added than just another copy paste of a core race.

This is not a strong argument to get Blizzard to probably 100x the work you're suggesting.

I find a lot of the current AR to be boring and a waste, so do others. That doesn't mean Blizzard shouldn't have added those. Some people will like certain ARs and some people will hate those same certain ARs.

That's not an objective measure/argument that can be used against an AR, because as we see with the inevitable Junker Gnomes, if the "is boring and a waste" argument mattered then Alliance wouldn't be receiving such an AR.

I mean hell, even Obelisk believed they weren't going to add Nightborne, that "two elves are already enough for the game" and all that jazz. Look what happened? Blizzard didn't give a shit about that sort of comment lol

[Varx]

No one is confusing the groups. People know who the High Elves are, and who the Blood Elves are. This is evidenced by the Blizzcon 2013 video I shared where Chris Metzen asked for any High Elf fans in the crowd and besides one or two people the crowd was silent overall.



The point is being able to play as and experience the story of the High Elves who split off from the Blood Elves. While they have a shared history up until that split, (which btw so do Void Elves - who even more so have further Blood Elf shared history up until they're voided out so this point is truly moot) the story of the "High Elves who took back their name" then veers off into different territory.

People for some reason assume that Alliance High Elves had it easy, had the comforting lifestyle of the human kingdoms and etc, where is this explicitly stated or shown? How do we know they weren't facing their own hardships with having to leave their home and family behind? What was it like those couple months/years after the split happened?

We see often High Elves either aiding or fighting in the name of the Alliance. What grew this loyalty? How did the Alliance react to receiving these bunch of High Elves (similar to how we're seeing the effects of Teldrassil refugees)?

What was it like being away from the Sunwell? Having to fight the urges of magical withdrawal with constant objects or through sheer willpower?

Plethora of things to be explored by the High Elves on Alliance. Stuff that Blood Elves narrative wouldn't be privy to, so saying that it's "to play a Horde race without having to commit to the Horde faction" is pretty silly.

Especially since Horde received a version of Night Elf Highborne that they get to experience fully now without having to play in the Alliance. And also which btw, "play a Horde race without having to commit to the Horde faction" is actually on the nose for what Void Elves are.

Void Elves are literal Blood Elves who just harnessed a chaotic energy, they carry the Blood Elf history that occurred all throughout TBC so they're much closer to Blood Elves in terms of narrative. The Void Elf narrative even mirrors a similar one that early TBC Blood Elves had: power at any cost to protect their people.

So it is very very strange to come at playable Alliance High Elves as if they're so damaging if made playable when these sorts of things have already occurred to the Alliance faction and also to the Horde faction (through Void Elves).

Saying "we don't want Blizzard to make the same mistake again" is also not a strong argument because we see sorts like this:

"Future allied races
There are no immediate plans for Wildhammer dwarves, but it is possible in the future.[9]"

If a 3rd dwarf type is possible, that shatters any preconceived notion that a third type of any race is impossible.

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This is not a strong argument to get Blizzard to probably 100x the work you're suggesting.

I find a lot of the current AR to be boring and a waste, so do others. That doesn't mean Blizzard shouldn't have added those. Some people will like certain ARs and some people will hate those same certain ARs.

That's not an objective measure/argument that can be used against an AR, because as we see with the inevitable Junker Gnomes, if the "is boring and a waste" argument mattered then Alliance wouldn't be receiving such an AR.

I mean hell, even Obelisk believed they weren't going to add Nightborne, that "two elves are already enough for the game" and all that jazz. Look what happened? Blizzard didn't give a shit about that sort of comment lol

You're right I agree some AR are a somewhat lack luster. I just feel that once a core race has yielded an AR chances are that it wont happen again, especially since they'll need to have a faction opposite and anything other than some kind of nelf AR would throw of the balance. You can't give the alliance helvs and then give the horde vulpera, ogres, Lf undead, it's not right.

Obviously im not blizzard and I cant speak for them but im sure we can all agree when it comes to implementing major content such as classes and races there needs to be a balance between the horde and alliance in terms of theme and mechanics.

The examples are right there:

DH can only be two races, one on each faction.

The horde got a nelf varient as an AR while the alliance got a belf one.

Etc etc.

Neutrality with something similar to what i suggested doesn't mess with that balance and adds more to WoW than just belves with blue eyes and alleria tattoos while horde gets tiny fox people or hulking brutes.

Just picture all the possibilities

Update to eversong allows flying in all TBC starting zones.

New silvermoon battle ground.

Demon Hunters for multiple races.

Shiny new core horde race that yields an alliance AR.

But hey I'm just a faceless mmo champ poster, what do I know.

[Aldo Hawk]

Snip.

Elves coming out from Quel'thalas and joining alliance are Blood elf dissenters, not the High elves that are being requested, those that stuck with the alliance all along.

A suggestion like this only shows the desire for the model, which the HE request is not for, HE are being requested because HE were alliance, are alliance, and will still be alliance.

[Varx]

Elves coming out from Quel'thalas and joining alliance are Blood elf dissenters, not the High elves that are being requested, those that stuck with the alliance all along.

A suggestion like this only shows the desire for the model, which the HE request is not for, HE are being requested because HE were alliance, are alliance, and will still be alliance.

Who said it has to be like that. Use your imagination like the OP did.

Story starts out as a seige of silvermoon spear headed by alleria.

The new elves could have either been self identified as helves or belves but you end up doing quests for both sides for w/e reason and ultimately decide on which faction fits your ideals.

Wasn't it shown in this thread a while ago that not all belves are pro horde? Maybe there are some helves that regret not following lorthemar.

Im sorry man, but helves and belves share the same model as reinforced by the lore as they're the same biological race.

I mean go to the argent tournament outside of the raid entrance and look at the vendors, or the npc in isle of thunder. They're one and the same minus a difference in color prefrence.

THIS is the compromise.

[Aldo Hawk]

What was it like being away from the Sunwell? Having to fight the urges of magical withdrawal with constant objects or through sheer willpower?

I think the best question is: What is their relation with the Sunwell after it's restoration? Because we know Thalassians are connected with it, and by simple deduction HE would start to tap into it's energies again, but there is a whole area of characterization Blizzard could expand -a lot-. Like... They want to distance from magic all along, as the HE from the lodges, so they don't repeat the mistakes of the past, or things like that. We don't even know if pilgrimage is still allowed due to the war on Battle for Azeroth, there's a lot to expand from a single aspect of them.

Especially since Horde received a version of Night Elf Highborne that they get to experience fully now without having to play in the Alliance. And also which btw, "play a Horde race without having to commit to the Horde faction" is actually on the nose for what Void Elves are.

Void Elves are literal Blood Elves who just harnessed a chaotic energy, they carry the Blood Elf history that occurred all throughout TBC so they're much closer to Blood Elves in terms of narrative. The Void Elf narrative even mirrors a similar one that early TBC Blood Elves had: power at any cost to protect their people.

So it is very very strange to come at playable Alliance High Elves as if they're so damaging if made playable when these sorts of things have already occurred to the Alliance faction and also to the Horde faction (through Void Elves).

Void elves damaged more the Blood elf characterization than High elves could ever do, their own existence burrows from Sin'dorei pragmatism, it ruined one of the things that made Blood elves cool from back in TbC, and i hope for Sin'dorei to loose the Sunwell so we can have that cool characterization again... seriously, i feel kind of sad by this...

I find a lot of the current AR to be boring and a waste, so do others. That doesn't mean Blizzard shouldn't have added those. Some people will like certain ARs and some people will hate those same certain ARs.

There's people that loves Gnomes. I mean, there -is- people that -love- Gnomes. What else is to say? xd

That's not an objective measure/argument that can be used against an AR, because as we see with the inevitable Junker Gnomes, if the "is boring and a waste" argument mattered then Alliance wouldn't be receiving such an AR.

I pray for it not to happen, seriously. That would be a nice customization option. If gets added through AR system? Not truly a big deal, but well, you know xd

I mean hell, even Obelisk believed they weren't going to add Nightborne, that "two elves are already enough for the game" and all that jazz. Look what happened? Blizzard didn't give a shit about that sort of comment lol

Seriously? where can i find it? hoho...

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Hey man don't take it personally. Obelisk just likes to be aggressive about any new poster coming in to support to the thread to scare em off in hopes they don't increase the support for High Elves.

Btw this is so true it hurts, you can easily tell when he feels cornered or offended.

That means we are doing a good job.

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Who said it has to be like that. Use your imagination like the OP did.

Story starts out as a seige of silvermoon spear headed by alleria.

The new elves could have either been self identified as helves or belves but you end up doing quests for both sides for w/e reason and ultimately decide on which faction fits your ideals.

Wasn't it shown in this thread a while ago that not all belves are pro horde? Maybe there are some helves that regret not following lorthemar.

Im sorry man, but helves and belves share the same model as reinforced by the lore as they're the same biological race.

I mean go to the argent tournament outside of the raid entrance and look at the vendors, or the npc in isle of thunder. They're one and the same minus a difference in color prefrence.

THIS is the compromise.

NOTHING stops a Blood elf to abandon the horde and go to the Alliance, there is a difference between being a Sin'dorei and being horde.

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You're right I agree some AR are a somewhat lack luster. I just feel that once a core race has yielded an AR chances are that it wont happen again, especially since they'll need to have a faction opposite and anything other than some kind of nelf AR would throw of the balance. You can't give the alliance helvs and then give the horde vulpera, ogres, Lf undead, it's not right.

Blizzard gave two races that accompanied players through most of Legion to the horde, and the Alliance received one race that popped up the last patch and another one that popped up during the last month of the expansion.

Is that fair?

Seems like a non empirical thing, isn't it?

[Syegfryed]

The original intent of using Kul'Tiran in this thread is to show that Blizzard can give "the same race" different models on a whim. They're calling Kul'Tirans the same race. Alex Afrasiabi literally saying, "btw they're human" shows this.

And highmountain taurens? "btw they're tauren"

its literally the same thing, yes both are human, yes both are tauren, yes both dark iron and ironforge are dwarves, but they are not just the regular human/tauren/dwarf

i don't know how this is so difficult to grasp

He doesn't say anything about Drust ancestry, doesn't say anything about magically being changed.

he don't have to, drust lore and the ulfar quotes were added later.

What you guys are showing me is that you'll only listen to Blizzard

cute, very cute

Kul'Tirans aren't another race, they're human.

they are human in the same sense lightforged draenei are draenei and highmountain are tauren, yet still different

The highmountain Tauren example is silly, they have moose horns. Plenty have suggested here having permanent fixtures to High Elves such as tattoos/feathers/highlights etc. This would be on top of the different eyes High Elves have.

silly is to think tattoos and fucking feather is enough to distinguish a race, those are not morphological or racial changes

the horns is a biological change, they didn't put a different horn int heir heads because they want to, and the normal taurens can't put that horn, yet, any blood elf can put a tattoo or a feather

If moose horns is enough but Highmountain Tauren are allowed to have same skin tones, then extra accessories but the same model for High Elves is do-able too.

they are not, you are again, using the false equivalence here, just because A equal B C don't equal A

Horde also already have two heavily modified Night Elf models in the Zandalari and Nightborne. Alliance only has Void Elves, which isn't a modified model. So all things being equal, it's also okay that Alliance gets another model based off the Blood Elf one again.

this is even a worse argument

"horde have one model more, so alliance should get the model" lmao

i have to ask where is saying that we should have "equally models" somewhere;

[Varx]

[QUOTE=Aldo Hawk;51151444]

The point is being able to play as and experience the story of the High Elves who split off from the Blood Elves. While they have a shared history up until that split, (which btw so do Void Elves - who even more so have further Blood Elf shared history up until they're voided out so this point is truly moot) the story of the "High Elves who took back their name" then veers off into different territory.

I think the best question is: What is their relation with the Sunwell after it's restoration? Because we know Thalassians are connected with it, and by simple deduction HE would start to tap into it's energies again, but there is a whole area of characterization Blizzard could expand -a lot-. Like... They want to distance from magic all along, as the HE from the lodges, so they don't repeat the mistakes of the past, or things like that. We don't even know if pilgrimage is still allowed due to the war on Battle for Azeroth, there's a lot to expand from a single aspect of them.

Void elves damaged more the Blood elf characterization than High elves could ever do, their own existence burrows from Sin'dorei pragmatism, it ruined one of the things that made Blood elves cool from back in TbC, and i hope for Sin'dorei to loose the Sunwell so we can have that cool characterization again... seriously, i feel kind of sad by this...

There's people that loves Gnomes. I mean, there -is- people that -love- Gnomes. What else is to say? xd

I pray for it not to happen, seriously. That would be a nice customization option. If gets added through AR system? Not truly a big deal, but well, you know xd

Seriously? where can i find it? hoho...

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Btw this is so true it hurts, you can easily tell when he feels cornered or offended.

That means we are doing a good job.

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NOTHING stops a Blood elf to abandon the horde and go to the Alliance, there is a difference between being a Sin'dorei and being horde.

How can you guys be so pity and demand something so specific that you wont even consider the best possible compromise.

Like i said who's to say there are not high elves who regret their choice who are still in existence.

I feel like your speaking on behalf of pissed of elf fans from the infancy of tbc who were shocked and appalled that the horde got silvermoon while alliance got space goats and not the other way around.

Honestly, im literally suggesting what you want. You could make a blue eyes elf and role play that you were a helf all this time and you end up choosing alliance but you're still not happy???

Come on man...