Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[FlubberPuddy]

being blasted by void energies till you turn part ethereal.

Just want to point out you keep using this as if it is the "current method" with how Void Elves came to be when that was a very specific one-time moment where a bad guy ethereal was trying to forcefully take away blood elves mortality. It hasn't been confirmed it's "Hey ready for your Void dose of the day? - BRZZZT -! -> Void Elf Bae-bee "

We have no idea on:

1) Are they currently turning more Void Elves
2) If they are, how are they doing it?

None of those have been clarified at all. We don't know how more Void Elves are being made if they are.

[Varx]

What "culture and environmental conditions" are those? Because, as far as I can tell, there isn't anything in Kul'Tiras to 'foster' that kind of physique that is not in Stormwind as well.

Also, Kul'Tirans can also be super-thin.

I dont know the specifics. All I know is that blizzard stated they're fat due to living in kul tiras. Something about fighting sea monsters and the environment itself.


I dont have a link. Just google the statement. 8 got no reason to lie.

[FlubberPuddy]

All depends on how they want to play it.

Pretty much what it's always boiled down to.

Blizzard understands there's a segment of fans on Alliance wanting to play High Elves. Will they grant it? Or will they stick those customizations onto Blood Elves and say 'sorry, this aesthetic will always stay on Horde.'

Atm, they've only given 1) reasons for why Void Elves got chosen over High Elves 2) High Elves are a possibility (a comment reverberated by Afrasiabi as well). Oh and 3) Feasel commenting that they acknowledge it is a community favorite race option.

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I dont know the specifics. All I know is that blizzard stated they're fat due to living in kul tiras. Something about fighting sea monsters and the environment itself.


I dont have a link. Just google the statement. 8 got no reason to lie.

This should shed light: https://www.reddit.com/r/warcraftlor...ltiran_humans/

https://www.reddit.com/r/warcraftlor...umans/e2uo24s/

The thin/large human models are an opportunity for Blizzard to explore different body shapes, as they clarified in an interview.

From said interview:

Chaud: Are Thin Humans going to be an Allied race, are they NPCs, what’s the weird, thin Human model?

Travis: So, Thin Man and Fat Man are what we call them internally. And no, they’re not intended to be a different race, [they’re] just variants on Kul Tirans. So, generally, when we’re spawning up Kul Tiras on the design side, we looked at using them as kind of our… maybe it’s a little bit like, ‘The big guy’s the bouncer!’ Or, ‘The big guy’s the ruffian who’s got a little guy up by the neck! And then the little guy’s more the scoundrel and they’re always holding daggers or leanin’ up against something,’ and, I don’t know, it just gives us a little more flavor and texture to the world.

You'll see that, in Kul Tiras itself, the vast majority of humans just use the regular model. In addition to that, there's not really any lore to suggest that the Kul Tirans are any larger or different from other humans. It's just a way for them to give body options.

Some have speculated it's because of the Drust integrating into Kul Tiras, hence druids and being larger, but there's not much solid lore to suggest that if any as far as I know.

Remember that we've had Jaina this entire time, she's from Kul Tiras and not some sort of half-vrykul.

[Manariel]

Kt humans aren't just fat for the sake of making them different from sw humans, a belief a lot of helfers cling to for hope.

They're fat because culture and environmental conditions in Kultiras nourished that body type. Something all other human nations were not exposed to.

High elves have 0 reason to have any sort of ass pull physical change from belves to justify a new AR.

It also build normal and very thin humans. Why can we just play the big ones only ? Are the other normal and frail humans from Kul Tiras not Kul Tirans ?

Is there even one noticeable character who looks like the player character to identify with ? Beyond Ashvane, I mean.

The playable Kul Tirans build is a total asspull (and I can't blame Blizzard, just the Alliance team there, which did a piss-poor job with BFA from start to finish, and had already started in Legion, when it came to Allied Races) since nothing in the lore explains such differences. And that's not just living conditions, otherwise everyone would look closer in build, but their insane range indicated something else (Drust blood?) which was never established.

Just want to point out you keep using this as if it is the "current method" with how Void Elves came to be when that was a very specific one-time moment where a bad guy ethereal was trying to forcefully take away blood elves mortality. It hasn't been confirmed it's "Hey ready for your Void dose of the day? - BRZZZT -! -> Void Elf Bae-bee "

We have no idea on:

1) Are they currently turning more Void Elves
2) If they are, how are they doing it?

None of those have been clarified at all. We don't know how more Void Elves are being made if they are.

That is another important point : Blizzard doesn't care to explain why there is as many members of one race to be playable and useful in the story they want to tell. The day they finally decides that sitting on all that subscription and race change money is dumber than catering ever more to Belf fanboys, High Elves will become playable.

The current High Dwarves jokes is clearly a hint that they know this demand didn't die down - as they so blantatl hoped it would with Void Elves being created - and for me, it's clear that they won't let it go entirely to waste. Not when they need every bit of goodwill they need to rebound after the failures of BFA.

[FlubberPuddy]

That is another important point : Blizzard doesn't care to explain why there is as many members of one race to be playable and useful in the story they want to tell. The day they finally decides that sitting on all that subscription and race change money is dumber than catering ever more to Belf fanboys, High Elves will become playable.

The current High Dwarves jokes is clearly a hint that they know this demand didn't die down - as they so blantatl hoped it would with Void Elves being created - and for me, it's clear that they won't let it go entirely to waste. Not when they need every bit of goodwill they need to rebound after the failures of BFA.

Yeah I think they realize they've never had a demand this high (lol) with any other requested race. And it's true, they do not. They do not have so many players creating suggestions/art and continually requesting any other unplayable race. This request has been going on before I even started playing WoW. With how many players have come and gone through WoW's lifetime yet this request remains speaks volumes.

Also as Aucald suggests, the melting pot starting zones can open more race variants to be added that does not need some extensive background. Even compared to Allied Races that cannot do the starting area.

Blizzard can simply just add races now with their own small hub just like AR and also make them begin going through the tutorial. They could even dub the feature something different, like 'sub-races' lol. That way say something like Frost Dwarves, Ulduar Mechagnomes, Leper Gnomes, Man'ari etc could just be extra additions without having to be attached to very specific lore.

Remember, they have gone from releasing paired races with very extensive starting zones, to cutting out extensive starting zones and utilizing similar race models/looks to give even more races. Sure the AR are similar, but we've gotten far more of them. All in the name of increasing character customization options.

Increased customizations in SL are another form of this, by adding things like Dark Trolls/Wildhammer Dwarves. They're cutting out even racials to focus on just 'more looks' yet we essentially get even more 'races' by virtue. And in this case not even a social hub was needed, nor "an extra race slot."

They are slowly and slowly streamlining the process to get everyone more character customization without so much baggage. Before it was "New race must have its own looks, an extensive leveling experience, additional lore to the faction and its own place in the world."

Now it's gotten to the point of SL, add some options and blam 'another race' is born. No baggage required.

[Grythletubs]

With an entire expansion deriving from an april fools joke, it's nice that they acknowledged high elf fans 2 years in a row. Keep it up!

[Obelisk Kai]

So basically the Allied Races simply pass the new starting experience over. That's fine, and it doesn't really change the root point of my original post, which was about the core races. Meaning they could well introduce new core races (and not Allied Races) such as a High Elven exile choice, and then fold them into the new starting experience without issue as concerns the lore. Alternatively, High Elven exile (or in this case repatriated High Elf) could become a cosmetic choice for Blood Elves without issue. All depends on how they want to play it.

At the moment though, there is no sign of an expansion to the core race roster, and the objections that stopped the exiles being added when they were considered as an allied race still stand, that they are a duplicate of an existing race and they unacceptably blur the distinctions between the two factions. As such, what was sought was an excuse to expand the Void Elf's race customisation options in such a way that you could pretend to be a high elf exile and not a Void Elf, using the analogy that the 'new unified experience' would allow for different facets of a race to become playable. The exclusion of the Allied races from that experience removes that avenue for them.

On a personal note, I disagree that was ever a considered intent. The purpose of Exile's reach is simply what they stated it to be, a way to familiarise new players with modern concepts of what WoW is that current starting experiences do not facilitate. I believe the ability for Trolls to share skin tones with other tribes, and the Dwarves to sport Wildhammer customisation options, and indeed the Humans to get African and Asian faces, is just going to be added in without comment by Blizzard and that it will be up to the players to head canon their own background. If that involves exile's reach for that player then that is fine.

As for the final point, 'high elf' being a cosmetic choice for Blood Elves is a contradiction. There is no unique 'high elf customisation' for Blood Elves to appropriate. That is akin to claiming you can make 'Human' a cosmetic choice for Humans. Blood Elves are High Elves. A High Elf cosmetic choice does not need to be added. High Elf customisation is just shorthand for blue eyes. It will be a blue eyes option, maybe choices seven, eight and nine under the eye colour option for Blood Elves should it be added. It's nowhere near as visually impactful or exciting as Wildhammer tattoos, those actually mean something. Nor is it as precious as Human avatars being able to be customised so that players can play someone who looks like them.

At the end of the day, it's just an eye colour option and should be treated as such.

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You can downplay the number of High Elves still remaining, but they are still outnumbering the few Void Elves by a wide margin, forming real and sustainable groups (like the Silver Covenant and the Lodge of Quel Lithien) which had to be purposely left out of BFA because otherwise the ren'doreï would have suffered even more than they did to become acceptable. In that regard, the High Elves do constitue a unique, distinct experience of elves than the Void, Blood or Night (Kal and Shal) Elves offer.

The lore rationale provided for the absence of the exiles has always been their low numbers. Quel'lithien lodge is not sustainable, it is filled with Wildhammer Dwarves and Draenei now. The Silver Covenant is not sustainable, it was mocked by Elisande for mingling their blood. Surviving exile groups were cited as lacking a true sense of identity and being compelled to assimilate into their host societies as a consequence.

On the other hand, Void Elves had enough forces to contribute to a suicide mission and still remain a potent force within the Alliance. And Void Elves are clearly set up in such a way that they can add further Void Elves to their cause. Hence the comparison between the exiles and the Void Elves is incorrect in that the exiles are continually diminishing (as evidenced by their loss of control of their enclave in Dalaran in Legion to the Worgen) whereas the Void Elves, whilst they will never be numerous, can always plausibly be portrayed as having a sustainable number for a crack, elite force. Void Elves are intended as the thalassian elves of the Alliance, a compromise between giving Alliance players access to a kind of a High Elf, but one altered enough so that they don't infringe on the identity of the Blood Elves and which protects the integrity of the Horde faction.

Their story, their growth, isn't the Blood Elve's, it has become distinct and remains as such. It isn't either the Human's, even if the two are interwinned, like the Blood Elves' isn't the Forsaken's.

They don't really have a story. You cited their actions in MOP, but that was really being bit part players in the story of the Blood Elves's disenchantment with Garrosh's rule and Jaina's move from peacemaker to war leader. Every time they appear it is to facilitate someone else's story, often being foils for the Blood Elves. Now they are irrelevant,as rather than a group of political exiles marooned in the neutral city of Dalaran, the writers now have an actual group of playable Alliance thalassian elves whose void corruption places them at the opposite end of thematic duopoly with the light orientated Blood Elves. Why use the exiles as a foil when the Void Elves make far more sense?

And some people just want High Elves skins on Void Elves. If we can't have what we deserve because Blizzard still wants to spat on the Alliance playerbase -while probably handing out something great and requested to the Horde, as always - that's their problem. I'd rather have that than nothing at all, but between reskinned Void Elves and true playable High Elves, I'd take the latter. Bonus point for the rage it'd induce in BE players, who have always been the only ones clinging to appearance when talking about High Elves.

Conflating maintaining the differences between the Alliance and the Horde with 'spitting on the Alliance playerbase' is why your critiques are impaired. Each and every race the Alliance has ever gotten...which you have gone out of your way to condemn...has seemingly one major sin in your eyes. That they were not the high elf exiles. You have not come to terms with the story choice made of the high elves leaving the Alliance to join the horde. I believe Alliance players would be better served seeing the value in what they did get, instead of fixating on this fantasy that if you just got this one race, this one option, it would fix everything you believe to be wrong with the Alliance.

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Just want to point out you keep using this as if it is the "current method" with how Void Elves came to be when that was a very specific one-time moment where a bad guy ethereal was trying to forcefully take away blood elves mortality. It hasn't been confirmed it's "Hey ready for your Void dose of the day? - BRZZZT -! -> Void Elf Bae-bee "

We have no idea on:

1) Are they currently turning more Void Elves
2) If they are, how are they doing it?

None of those have been clarified at all. We don't know how more Void Elves are being made if they are.

Ironic in that I am the person who has fervently argued that Void Elves CAN turn others whereas many pro High Elfers, seemingly keen to ensure that the Void Elves don't have the ability to turn an exile into a Void Elf (and thus allow the argument that you can be a silver covenant high elf exile post void elf transformation), have argued fervently against.

I believe Void Elves CAN turn other Elves into Void Elves. I believe the evidence supports that. I believe that is what is already happening because the population displayed in game (with seven classes) does not and cannot match the initial tiny group of mage researchers. Steve Danuser's interview last year supports this position, as the only way his answer to the question of where void elf numbers come from is that they can replicate the transformation process.

Admittedly if they did want to give Void Elves high elf like customisations this is where they would justify it, but a few caveats. That would explicitly STILL be a Void Elf. That Void Elf would still have the Void Elf racials proccing like crazy, preventing a suspension of disbelief. That Void Elf would still be unable to be a Paladin, which for some reason seems to be the gold standard race-class combo high elf fans desire (perhaps in reference to the supposed unique nobility and purity of the high elves? I don't know, but that's a hard stance to maintain when Blood Elves now literally have holy energy pouring forth from their eye sockets).

And it is still unlikely. Removing the aesthetic differences between a Blood Elf and a Void Elf defeats the entire rationale behind making Void Elves in the first place and goes against their philosophy of the importance of having two diverse factions as a pillar of the game. Hence the Monkey paw result of High Elf like rather than High Elf exact. High Elf like is very possible.

I doubt you would welcome such a result.

[Aucald]

At the moment though, there is no sign of an expansion to the core race roster, and the objections that stopped the exiles being added when they were considered as an allied race still stand, that they are a duplicate of an existing race and they unacceptably blur the distinctions between the two factions. As such, what was sought was an excuse to expand the Void Elf's race customisation options in such a way that you could pretend to be a high elf exile and not a Void Elf, using the analogy that the 'new unified experience' would allow for different facets of a race to become playable. The exclusion of the Allied races from that experience removes that avenue for them.

On a personal note, I disagree that was ever a considered intent. The purpose of Exile's reach is simply what they stated it to be, a way to familiarise new players with modern concepts of what WoW is that current starting experiences do not facilitate. I believe the ability for Trolls to share skin tones with other tribes, and the Dwarves to sport Wildhammer customisation options, and indeed the Humans to get African and Asian faces, is just going to be added in without comment by Blizzard and that it will be up to the players to head canon their own background. If that involves exile's reach for that player then that is fine.

As for the final point, 'high elf' being a cosmetic choice for Blood Elves is a contradiction. There is no unique 'high elf customisation' for Blood Elves to appropriate. That is akin to claiming you can make 'Human' a cosmetic choice for Humans. Blood Elves are High Elves. A High Elf cosmetic choice does not need to be added. High Elf customisation is just shorthand for blue eyes. It will be a blue eyes option, maybe choices seven, eight and nine under the eye colour option for Blood Elves should it be added. It's nowhere near as visually impactful or exciting as Wildhammer tattoos, those actually mean something. Nor is it as precious as Human avatars being able to be customised so that players can play someone who looks like them.

At the end of the day, it's just an eye colour option and should be treated as such.

Perhaps not a considered intent, but certainly an effect of the overall design - it does indeed divorce starting characters using the original core races from their original starting locations, separating them from the milieu that once defined them more narrowly. It would be weird to start a Troll using Mossflayer skin tones in the Echo Isles to do Darkspear-specific quests for example, but not a problem at all to start them at Exile's Reach to learn the ropes. If they wanted to roll Allied Races into the mix they could also certainly do so, or even remove the "Allied Race" distinction entirely (which I think would be the better option all in all, but that's only my opinion).

As for the tired back and forth about "Blood Elves are High Elves" and "it's just an eye color" this is a debate that we've already had and I have little interest in having again - I'm aware you are steadfast in your opinion, and I disagree with it and so have my own. I don't know what Blizzard's current and future plans are for Exile's Reach as a starting experience, and no idea if they will expand it further or if they plan on rolling out new core or Allied races in the future. More or less just speculating on possibilities and ways it could go.

[FlubberPuddy]

I believe Void Elves CAN turn other Elves into Void Elves. I believe the evidence supports that. I believe that is what is already happening because the population displayed in game (with seven classes) does not and cannot match the initial tiny group of mage researchers. Steve Danuser's interview last year supports this position, as the only way his answer to the question of where void elf numbers come from is that they can replicate the transformation process.

Admittedly if they did want to give Void Elves high elf like customisations this is where they would justify it, but a few caveats. That would explicitly STILL be a Void Elf. That Void Elf would still have the Void Elf racials proccing like crazy, preventing a suspension of disbelief. That Void Elf would still be unable to be a Paladin, which for some reason seems to be the gold standard race-class combo high elf fans desire (perhaps in reference to the supposed unique nobility and purity of the high elves? I don't know, but that's a hard stance to maintain when Blood Elves now literally have holy energy pouring forth from their eye sockets).

And it is still unlikely. Removing the aesthetic differences between a Blood Elf and a Void Elf defeats the entire rationale behind making Void Elves in the first place and goes against their philosophy of the importance of having two diverse factions as a pillar of the game. Hence the Monkey paw result of High Elf like rather than High Elf exact. High Elf like is very possible.

I doubt you would welcome such a result.

So, as I bolded and emphasized (at least I thought I was emphasizing by bolding). The main question is how are they making new Void Elves if possible. Step away from focusing on whether they are or not.

The ethereal blasting void energy to forcefully take away their mortality is what turned Umbric and his followers into the Void Elves we see today, but that was a one time event. We do not see more Void Elves being made at all in the starting hub, only ones already Void being trained.

I meant to point out it's not sensible to say 'new void elves are being made by being blasted by void energies' because what we see in the recruitment scenario wasn't a purposefully thought out process.

There could be a better/safer way to make new Void Elves. A more refined approach that can be reasoned to expand the customization options in the future. Hence this is why I think they have not discussed that one bit (they as in WoW team).

Also yes, I would be much more content if those example options existed. As I've said before they picked what personally to me is the ugliest kind of sickly pale blue colors (despite being someone who's favorite color is blue). I've hated it since I saw it in Perfect World International's water-based race and I still hate it now.

I find it hard to even play a Void Elf despite trying to level up various classes as one, I gotta enjoy the look of my character and the current skin options are off-putting. Not unlike probably those that complain Male Nightborne faces look like ass and wish it were changed.

But actually as I was finding the link to prove KT Humans are just humans as stated by WoW team members, there was another comment from that same article that got my excited:

https://blizzardwatch.com/2018/04/05...-day-jimmy-lo/

"Mitch: I promised I’d ask on behalf of a coworker [Liz]..

[Laughing]

…Gnome Paladins? Any chance [of those]?

[Even more laughter]

Travis: I don’t know, and they don’t let me make those decisions. But… actually, the one thing I will say is that it does seem like we are getting — and this is just kind of almost speaking as a player — we’re getting a little more open about what is appropriate and also as the story progresses things are changing about what is appropriate. I mean, we started expanding into a world where we had a Night Elf Paladin, for example. I could see a world in which this is true someday, but…

Mitch: No plans, but not off the table?

Travis: Exactly."

1) Possibility of Night Elf Paladins one day would be enough for me

2) But also, notice the takeaway response is similar to Ion's "No plans in the near term, but anything's possible".

Seems to me if this is a 'standard response' then it's less of a platitude than some are making it be and truly what I've always said: They're not going to overshadow a race that was freshly released by talking about another.

Another example of it would be do you (general 'you') see Blizzard even acknowledging people who wish Taunka could've been an added option as it's been a long-requested option? Nope. Because no salesman would undermine a new product they just launched.

[Traycor]

So, over a year ago I said it would be awesome if Blizz did an April Fools joke about High Elves as a fun acknowledgement to those who want playable High Elves. Sure enough, Blizz gave us a fun, "We're All Elves Now" joke. Now, a year later, we got another "High Dwarves" joke. Fun times. Glad to see Blizz remembering the little people. XD

[Starla]

So, over a year ago I said it would be awesome if Blizz did an April Fools joke about High Elves as a fun acknowledgement to those who want playable High Elves. Sure enough, Blizz gave us a fun, "We're All Elves Now" joke. Now, a year later, we got another "High Dwarves" joke. Fun times. Glad to see Blizz remembering the little people. XD

It was funny....and the message was, the topic is a joke.

[Luck4]

It was funny....and the message was, the topic is a joke.

Woah, There's no need to be toxic or harsh, Pandas was a joke not much longer ago as well. Let's not make an April Fools Joke be turned in something offensive.

[FlubberPuddy]

Woah, There's no need to be toxic or harsh, Pandas was a joke not much longer ago as well. Let's not make an April Fools Joke be turned in something offensive.

It only offends those who don't have a sense of humor

Also @Traycor glad to see you again!

Hope everyone's staying safe during these times.

[Obelisk Kai]

Perhaps not a considered intent, but certainly an effect of the overall design - it does indeed divorce starting characters using the original core races from their original starting locations, separating them from the milieu that once defined them more narrowly. It would be weird to start a Troll using Mossflayer skin tones in the Echo Isles to do Darkspear-specific quests for example, but not a problem at all to start them at Exile's Reach to learn the ropes. If they wanted to roll Allied Races into the mix they could also certainly do so, or even remove the "Allied Race" distinction entirely (which I think would be the better option all in all, but that's only my opinion).

Yet that Exile's reach is necessary for this is entirely debatable.

Expanding the Darkspear Troll skin choice range doesn't require Exile's reach to explain. IF a lore explanation MUST be had, I can think of four off the top of my head.

1.) Your sand troll avatar was a foundling by the Darkspear.
2.) Your forest troll defected to the Darkspear as a young troll and has lived among their new tribe in the echo isles, becoming a Darkspear.
3.) Your frost troll is actually a Darkspear, but had a Frost Troll parent they take after.
4.) Your shadow troll is actually a Darkspear, but the skin tone is a genetic throwback.

None of those four explanations require Exile's reach, all of them are expansive enough to encompass any skin tones the Trolls end up getting and variations upon them can be employed with Dwarves as well. Players can happily begin their lives as Trolls upon the echo isles whilst looking like a Sand Troll or whatever, and because there are plentiful explanations in lore which explain why it can be that way (even if the player doesn't care about the lore and just thinks golden skin is cool), then it breaks nothing.

But the Allied races cannot participate in this, particularly those who are essentially glorified customisation options for existing races (LFD, Nightborne, Void Elves, HMT, DID and ,MHO). Their origins are set, in fact they are written in such a way that the fairly blank canvas roleplayers have with the core races is mostly coloured in.

So not only can Exile's reach not service the Allied races due to their exclusion from it, but the other purpose you've said could have an effect on the overall design isn't really required either.

Exile's reach is just what it purports to be. A better starting experience for new players to WoW that will teach them what WoW actually is.

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Woah, There's no need to be toxic or harsh, Pandas was a joke not much longer ago as well. Let's not make an April Fools Joke be turned in something offensive.

The thing is this is the third april in a row where this happens. Jeremy Feasel cracked a joke in April 2018 about high elves at the end of a pre BFA interview in 2018 and it was interpreted as an indication for incoming high elves, because they wouldn't tease such a volatile community unless there was a payoff incoming.

And a year ago, when the last April Fools suggested every race was getting turned into some kind of Elf (clearly in response to the still ongoing debate), it was akin interpreted by some the same way. That because they presumed Blizzard wouldn't dare tweak their noses without having something prepared, that what they were in fact doing was 'hinting' at playable high elves incoming.

And here we are a year later with yet another April Fool's joke mocking the whole thing and again it's seen as 'they are aware of us and what we want' which then leads into 'there is still hope'. Which is a problem. Hope is often treated as a positive (even the game itself does that with the whole 'you can't kill hope' spiel) but hope comes with a dangerous partner, false hope. False Hope also can't be killed, but it's an emotional black hole that invites continuing in a futile cause.

This is false hope because Blizzard doesn't seem to have an issue with gently mocking pro high elf commentators. Ion's nearly two year old interview answer is still surprising by the level of snark he deployed. The high elf debate has been mocked in the two previous April Fool's jokes. And the Void Elf silly emotes are also gently mocking the pro High Elf desire.

The joke was funny in this year's April Fools. It made us chuckle. But that was all it was intended to do and it signifies nothing more or nothing less than that.

[Ielenia]

The joke was funny in this year's April Fools. It made us chuckle. But that was all it was intended to do and it signifies nothing more or nothing less than that.

Until it becomes "more than that", like it happened to the pandaren.

[Starla]

Woah, There's no need to be toxic or harsh, Pandas was a joke not much longer ago as well. Let's not make an April Fools Joke be turned in something offensive.

It was funny...as I said. There is no 'toxic or harsh' in my comment, didn't mean it to seem that way.

[Obelisk Kai]

So, as I bolded and emphasized (at least I thought I was emphasizing by bolding). The main question is how are they making new Void Elves if possible. Step away from focusing on whether they are or not.

The ethereal blasting void energy to forcefully take away their mortality is what turned Umbric and his followers into the Void Elves we see today, but that was a one time event. We do not see more Void Elves being made at all in the starting hub, only ones already Void being trained.

I meant to point out it's not sensible to say 'new void elves are being made by being blasted by void energies' because what we see in the recruitment scenario wasn't a purposefully thought out process.

There could be a better/safer way to make new Void Elves. A more refined approach that can be reasoned to expand the customization options in the future. Hence this is why I think they have not discussed that one bit (they as in WoW team).

That is not what you have been advocating. You have been advocating that the addition of such customisations would allow a Void Elf player to pretend they are an uncorrupted High Elf. Even were the transformation to be perfected to the point that a Void Elf would, on the surface, be indistinguishable from a Blood Elf, it would still be a Void Elf. And while a Void Elf maybe another flavour of high elf, they are still another flavour. They are the variant, not the standard. They are the blueberry, not (as many players want) the vanilla. Blood Elves are the vanilla, the traditional high elf option within the warcraft universe.

Information regarding the ability of the Void Elves to recruit more maybe found within the upcoming Shadowlands novel as Alleria is a major character in that novel and she may have information to impart about the status of the Void Elves.

Also yes, I would be much more content if those example options existed. As I've said before they picked what personally to me is the ugliest kind of sickly pale blue colors (despite being someone who's favorite color is blue). I've hated it since I saw it in Perfect World International's water-based race and I still hate it now.

I find it hard to even play a Void Elf despite trying to level up various classes as one, I gotta enjoy the look of my character and the current skin options are off-putting. Not unlike probably those that complain Male Nightborne faces look like ass and wish it were changed.

The specific tone range selected for void elves was intended to evoke their void corruption and is compatible with their overall theme. Purples, dark dry blues and blue tinged grays. The tone range is purposely removed from the human tone range of Blood Elve to create the necessary aesthetic and thematic space between them and the Blood Elves.

The problem with this critique is that it is a highly personal objection, that the specific tones on offer don't agree with you. And yes, maybe you would be fine if some of the monkey paw results I linked were indeed added. But would everyone be happy? I doubt it. Thematic and aesthetic differentiation would be degraded to placate some people but there are still those holding out for perfection who would not be happy. At what point do you expect Blizzard to stop? When you personally are satisfied? Or when the player who wants maybe 20% less void coloration is satisifed? Or maybe the person who wants 40% less void coloration? It's no good saying, give them what they want, because Void Elves only exist because they are a different from Blood Elves. The unique skin tone range that Void Elves have...and the skin tones they don't have, represent meaning in terms of the lore and in terms of the desire to keep the two factions unique.

Blizzard MAY be persuaded to make one more movement on Void Elves when the moment comes. That it almost certainly won't be enough for the majority of people seeking that movement is a factor.

It would be far better if Blizzard made peace with that and instead leaned into the Void Elf fantasy instead to further differentiate them from Blood Elves.

But actually as I was finding the link to prove KT Humans are just humans as stated by WoW team members, there was another comment from that same article that got my excited:

https://blizzardwatch.com/2018/04/05...-day-jimmy-lo/



1) Possibility of Night Elf Paladins one day would be enough for me

2) But also, notice the takeaway response is similar to Ion's "No plans in the near term, but anything's possible".

Seems to me if this is a 'standard response' then it's less of a platitude than some are making it be and truly what I've always said: They're not going to overshadow a race that was freshly released by talking about another.

Another example of it would be do you (general 'you') see Blizzard even acknowledging people who wish Taunka could've been an added option as it's been a long-requested option? Nope. Because no salesman would undermine a new product they just launched.

Night Elf Paladins should definitely be a thing given they established the precedent themselves and should they need a Horde counterpart to keep the number even they could add a Zandalari Warlock.

Ion's response is Ion's response. I invite you to rewatch his comment to Preach where the clear implication from 'anything is possible' is that it's not going to happen and if it ever does happen it'll be a looooooong time coming.

- - - Updated - - -

Until it becomes "more than that", like it happened to the pandaren.

The only precedent Pandaren gave us was that identical races shared across the faction boundary don't work.

And Pandaren were never ruled out by Blizzard prior to their introduction.

[Ielenia]

The only precedent Pandaren gave us was that identical races shared across the faction boundary don't work.

Two things:
• The bolded part is nothing but your interpretation of that one vague answer given by a WoW dev.
• Another precedent the pandaren gave us was that "April Fools jokes" can become playable features. You are just trying to ignore it, or to sweep it under the rug.

And Pandaren were never ruled out by Blizzard prior to their introduction.

Neither were the high elves. And also: demon hunters were ruled out prior to their introductions.

[Obelisk Kai]

Two things:
• The bolded part is nothing but your interpretation of that one vague answer given by a WoW dev.
• Another precedent the pandaren gave us was that "April Fools jokes" can become playable features. You are just trying to ignore it, or to sweep it under the rug.

An interpretation borne out by the fact they haven't added a neutral since and the one candidate they considered was ruled out because it would turn an existing race neutral.

And the Pandaren 'April Fool's joke' was pretty fleshed out compared to one line that isn't about high elves at all if taken literally, but high dwarves. Forgive me if I see a difference behind an race that was actually fleshed out to make the joke real and a one line meta reference to the ongoing high elf debate.

Neither were the high elves. And also: demon hunters were ruled out prior to their introductions.

High Elves were ruled out on the grounds they are already playable, albeit for the Horde. Demon Hunters as I recall weren't playable before Legion, so it's not as if there was a Demon Hunter class people were refusing to play whilst asking for Demon Hunters.

All these false equivalencies Ielenia. So quick to see one thing as the same as another except the one thing that is actually the same, that a Blood Elf is a High Elf and that High Elves are thus playable.

[Ardenaso]

Until it becomes "more than that", like it happened to the pandaren.

and Tinker in Warcraft 3