Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Felya]

I don't think any of them actually believe Democrats and their policies will destroy the country. They all know, have seen, and lived through Democratic power. Every time seeing things get better and the working class do well. They are afraid they will not be able to be a white majority with all the power if Dems win. They are innately racist, despite 100s of years of historical records that show integrating societies actually improve the community and the economy for all. It's all about bigotry, insecurity, and fear with these people.

I thought we were buds before the election... I would point at him to show a sensible republican. He was my go to example to fight against the ‘all republicans are evil’ rhetoric. I know he knows better... even if it was an act, he had to know to act it out.

[JohnBrown1917]

I swear if i didn't read this thread daily I would've thought a mod merged a "CMV: I'm not a Trump supporter" thread by accident here.

All Trump supporters are pretty open about it here.

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I don't think any of them actually believe Democrats and their policies will destroy the country. They all know, have seen, and lived through Democratic power. Every time seeing things get better and the working class do well. They are afraid they will not be able to be a white majority with all the power if Dems win. They are innately racist, despite 100s of years of historical records that show integrating societies actually improve the community and the economy for all. It's all about bigotry, insecurity, and fear with these people.

With the raising wealth inequality during them? Are you joking?

[SirBeef]

I thought we were buds before the election... I would point at him to show a sensible republican. He was my go to example to fight against the ‘all republicans are evil’ rhetoric. I know he knows better... even if it was an act, he had to know to act it out.

For them it's all about winning. Nothing else matters. It matters not that the GOP has done nothing but ruin this country, this countries reputation in the world, this countries natural resources, this countries hard working peoples, this countries minorities, and so on. It's about being in power. All of the posters here are in that middle group where the rich guy is stealing most of their stuff but point at the brown guy and saying look, he's stealing from you.

My in-laws were never trumpers. They said they may move out of the country if he becomes the nominee and wins. The moment he became the nominee they had there maga swag and was praising the same person they were calling a rapist, pedophile, rapist, and failed business man months earlier. All they want to do is brag about being in power despite having no desire to have them actually govern.

[Felya]

All Trump supporters are pretty open about it here.

Is this a joke? Name one, other than panther... fuck... that sounds like shaming... Just think of how many there are, then reply with the number. Do not list names.

With the raising wealth inequality during them? Are you joking?

Could you be more specific, to see what actually was going on?

Edit: There is a reason I double mentioned, when we finally got a “Biden is the puppet of far left” post. We don’t get those at all, even though that’s literally Trump’s whole campaign.

Edit 2: we do not have actual arguments with Trump supporters. It’s extremely rare... The few here, claim to not be supporters, just voting Trump because the left is insane. They sometimes snipe to stir shit up, by agreeing to the victim complex or salting the conflict. Because... this is largely Biden voting majority. We bicker more with people claiming not to vote, than those claiming to vote Trump. It’s simply because there is no one left to tort... argue...

[SirBeef]

All Trump supporters are pretty open about it here.

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With the raising wealth inequality during them? Are you joking?

As my earnings went up and costs went down. Thing improved for me and most of my peers greatly under Clinton despite the top getting insanely richer. But keep tunnel visioning.

[JohnBrown1917]

As my earnings went up and costs went down. Thing improved for me and most of my peers greatly under Clinton despite the top getting insanely richer. But keep tunnel visioning.

So its purely anecdotal?


https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors.../#6cd6cd5b7342




But hey, you keep on thinking right-wing policies actually help the working class.

[Felya]

But hey, you keep on thinking right-wing policies actually help the working class.

Your link:

US Wages Have Been Rising Faster Than Productivity For Decades

I'm aware that this isn't what you believe, you are sure because the EPI has told you so, that American wages have been falling behind productivity rises over the decades. And there's a lovely piece of new research which shows that this simply isn't true. Far from it in fact, if we consider this research properly we'll see that wages have been rising faster than productivity. You might think this is not possible but I assure you that this is the correct way to read the conclusion of this new research.

Don’t use Forbes opinion columns for working class support, if your argument isn’t GOP policy.

[Omega10]

What actual chip materials do we give them? I thought they owned like 80% of all the precious mineral mines that make up the important parts.

It was a business article that did not go into technical details. I've read multiple business stories that basically said kind of the same thing:

The gist, from what I recall, is:

China right now cannot produce all of its own chips. They need *something* from the US, and right now they buy from us. It will take a year or so for them to fix this deficiency so that they no longer need to rely on US supply lines. And, currently, China is working on producing their own stuff, maybe a bit less technically advanced, so that they no longer will need to buy from the US.

This is consistent with what China is doing for all it's IT needs. Now, they spend a lot of money on products from US companies. The US is promising to cut them off. So they are developing their own operating systems, their own internet, their own chips, so on and so forth. The consensus of these articles is that chip making is one area where the US has an edge - which seems to be one reason that China is currently buying them from the US. Since we will be cutting them off, or at least the general consensus is we will cut them off in the foreseeable future, they are in the process of developing their own, even if in some cases their chips work a bit slower than ours.

Their operating system will probably be better than Windows, their internet will likely match or slightly surpass ours, but we seem to still be number 1 in chip technology. The articles imply that Chinese chip technology is not SIGNIFICANTLY behind our chip technology, but directly state that ours is still better.

[Dontrike]

You kidding me?

How about COVID-19 situation, for starters?

I read that as something else at first, my bad.

[Omega10]

As my earnings went up and costs went down. Thing improved for me and most of my peers greatly under Clinton despite the top getting insanely richer. But keep tunnel visioning.

Anecdotally, the Clinton years were my best economic years. By far. Things went downhill for me a lot when Bush was elected, stabilized during the Obama years, and plummeted during Trump years.

[Belize]

Anecdotally, the Clinton years were my best economic years. By far. Things went downhill for me a lot when Bush was elected, stabilized during the Obama years, and plummeted during Trump years.

It's almost as if there was a pattern of economic decline under GOP rule. Must be a coincidence

[Felya]

Anecdotally, the Clinton years were my best economic years. By far. Things went downhill for me a lot when Bush was elected, stabilized during the Obama years, and plummeted during Trump years.

Until about June, mine were during Trump. Not his fucking doing either... I made a mistake when negotiating salary at a new job and asked for 10k more than I intended. They agreed, so I am now a master negotiator.

Edit: It’s how you build loyalty... I didn’t even look for work during furlough... I don’t want to work anywhere else. The best people...

Edit: oh and on that note... my posting will slow down fairly soon. Nothing about you fine people, just heading back from furlough.

[JohnBrown1917]

Anecdotally, the Clinton years were my best economic years. By far. Things went downhill for me a lot when Bush was elected, stabilized during the Obama years, and plummeted during Trump years.

Sadly that does not apply to those living in poverity.

[Felya]

Sadly that does not apply to those living in poverity.

Actually, no... The role Clintons played is largely bloviated in both directions. The early 90s and late 80s were a cluster fuck of Reagan’s piss down economics. When Clinton took over, they did have ambitious plans, like Hillarycare. But, they really benefited from the IT boom, that crashed under Bush. Bush then actually did the same thing, where he wasn’t directly involved with blowing up the housing crisis, outside of ignoring the bubble producing the good economic number Bush was riding. Then the recession hit and we didn’t completely recover... followed by a 15% corporate tax cut, that just compounded persistent issues from the Great Recession, but created similar numbers to the bubbles under Clinton and Bush. I would say Clinton got lucky and Bush exploited it.

Edit: Just a reminder, the idea that automotive industry left the country after NAFTA, is a fabrication that ignores the reason NAFTA was needed... after the piss down policy of Reaganomics.

Edit 2: Needed, not in the sense of specifically NAFTA. There were plenary of other solutions, but that was the neoliberal solution.

Edit 3: I sometimes feel that the vitriol Clinton gets for 90s, is from people who don’t like to get bills, for the stupid shit they exploit.

[SirBeef]

Actually, no... The role Clintons played is largely bloviated in both directions. The early 90s and late 80s were a cluster fuck of Reagan’s piss down economics. When Clinton took over, they did have ambitious plans, like Hillarycare. But, they really benefited from the IT boom, that crashed under Bush. Bush then actually did the same thing, where he wasn’t directly involved with blowing up the housing crisis, outside of ignoring the bubble producing the good economic number Bush was riding. Then the recession hit and we didn’t completely recover... followed by a 15% corporate tax cut, that just compounded persistent issues from the Great Recession, but created similar numbers to the bubbles under Clinton and Bush. I would say Clinton got lucky and Bush exploited it.

Edit: Just a reminder, the idea that automotive industry left the country after NAFTA, is a fabrication that ignores the reason NAFTA was needed... after the piss down policy of Reaganomics.

Edit 2: Needed, not in the sense of specifically NAFTA. There were plenary of other solutions, but that was the neoliberal solution.

NAFTA is the go to excuse conservaturds use as a strike on Clinton and globalization. Ignoring NAFTA was a Republican plan signed by Bush prior to Clinton and ignoring that the majority of those auto jobs lost were lost to automation and decisions to shift production overseas and to Mexico years prior. The aftermath was something already in the works and would have happened regardless of NAFTA.

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It was a business article that did not go into technical details. I've read multiple business stories that basically said kind of the same thing:

The gist, from what I recall, is:

China right now cannot produce all of its own chips. They need *something* from the US, and right now they buy from us. It will take a year or so for them to fix this deficiency so that they no longer need to rely on US supply lines. And, currently, China is working on producing their own stuff, maybe a bit less technically advanced, so that they no longer will need to buy from the US.

This is consistent with what China is doing for all it's IT needs. Now, they spend a lot of money on products from US companies. The US is promising to cut them off. So they are developing their own operating systems, their own internet, their own chips, so on and so forth. The consensus of these articles is that chip making is one area where the US has an edge - which seems to be one reason that China is currently buying them from the US. Since we will be cutting them off, or at least the general consensus is we will cut them off in the foreseeable future, they are in the process of developing their own, even if in some cases their chips work a bit slower than ours.

Their operating system will probably be better than Windows, their internet will likely match or slightly surpass ours, but we seem to still be number 1 in chip technology. The articles imply that Chinese chip technology is not SIGNIFICANTLY behind our chip technology, but directly state that ours is still better.

Interesting. I'll look for that. I was under the assumption that China fully controlled the entire manufacturing process.

[Felya]

NAFTA is the go to excuse conservaturds use as a strike on Clinton and globalization. Ignoring NAFTA was a Republican plan signed by Bush prior to Clinton and ignoring that the majority of those auto jobs lost were lost to automation and decisions to shift production overseas and to Mexico years prior. The aftermath was something already in the works and would have happened regardless of NAFTA.

Yep, it’s why I used neoliberal. It’s the bedrock of conservative liberal oxymoron. Roger & Me is in the government archives as a classic, but few seem to remember what it was about.

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Interesting. I'll look for that. I was under the assumption that China fully controlled the entire manufacturing process.

It’s tricky... subsidizing and the control can be exerted for the good of the republic, but it’s not constant. This is feeling a bit like solar panels from 2016:

Why China Is Dominating the Solar Industry
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...olar-industry/

China’s move eclipsed the leadership of the U.S. solar industry, which invented the technology, still holds many of the world’s patents and led the industry for more than three decades. Just how China accomplished that and why it did is still a matter of concern and debate among U.S. experts.

[SirBeef]

Yep, it’s why I used neoliberal. It’s the bedrock of conservative liberal oxymoron. Roger & Me is in the government archives as a classic, but few seem to remember what it was about.

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It’s tricky... subsidizing and the control can be exerted for the good of the republic, but it’s not constant. This is feeling a bit like solar panels from 2016:

Why China Is Dominating the Solar Industry
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...olar-industry/

I just think back to Carter and his green initiatives and where we could be today if Regan didn't dismantle and defund them once he got in. We could be the worlds leader in solar, electric vehicles, and geothermal power and could have reduced our reliance on oil by 75%.

Just imagine how the rest of the world would have followed suit and climate change could easily have been halted or seriously slowed down.

[DingDongKing]

My in-laws were never trumpers. They said they may move out of the country if he becomes the nominee and wins. The moment he became the nominee they had there maga swag and was praising the same person they were calling a rapist, pedophile, rapist, and failed business man months earlier. All they want to do is brag about being in power despite having no desire to have them actually govern.

Because it’s tribalism 101.

‘We won, so we’re the best!’

It’s a transfer from how people view sports across and also how a lot of jingoists misinterpret patriotism. They don’t even know why they’re loyal but it’s because they’re supposed to be. They don’t know what they won, but someone else lost so yay.

'I shall die on my hill whilst chanting USA!’

[Adam Jensen]

Of course, most on here will say it is Trump's fault.

Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible. If it doesn't happen, you're responsible. - Donald J Trump, 11/08/13

Most of the issues in the US today are either Trump's fault or exacerbated by him.

[Omega10]

Interesting. I'll look for that. I was under the assumption that China fully controlled the entire manufacturing process.

It is not easy getting information about what is happening in China economically. The US media goes so far to color any article with phrases and interpretations intended to make China look bad that they often remove anything factual from the article. Yahoo finance has a lot of articles about Chinese companies, China, and its economy, and I try to put together the pieces based on comparing multiple articles and look for similarities.

Some of the major economic decisions yet to be made are things like:

Will Boeing get to sell any airplanes in China, or will it be only Airbus and Chinese manufacturers? This makes a huge difference for Boeing.
If Boeing is phased out, either at the insistence of the US or Chinese government (we may ban Boeing from selling there to prevent China from stealing our technology and to punish China), how fast will the phase out be? Probably immediately if it is initiated by the US, and gradually if initiated by China.

Despite the economic war between the two countries, China continues to buy US farm products, and the US still allows sales to happen. Will this continue?

Right now the war seems to be mostly being waged in IT industries. Which I guess is as good a place as any to start. How long will the war be mostly restricted to IT products? American corporations are definitely foot dragging about moving industries out of China, and if they do they are almost refusing to bring them back to the US, despite our unemployment numbers. There is talk about building up the Mexican infrastructure to handle the needs of building large scale factories to replace the manufacturing in China. I have not seen any articles about any actual actions or timelines or anything like that.

Decoupling our economies will take quite a while, as in years. I guess it's for the best that the initial actions are being done cautiously.