Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Alanar]

What eludes me is that if Sin'dorei and Shal'dorei go to the Alliance, then they are simply "Humans and Pals."

That's the problem with the Alliance story. If you tone down the Humans and elevate the other races around them, the Alliance can become interesting.

Ravenmoon doesn't seem to want to admit that the problems with the Alliance story lies with the over-emphasis of one alliance race. The Horde is diverse so Blizzard has a wider ranger of story to play with. Thus far, the Alliance races, besides the Humans, are just mindless drones going "Yes Humans, No Humans, 3 bags full Humans."

Its hilaious that its not based on anything else besides hes wish or view. Nightborne have never been alliance so thats already 90% of hes argument gone.

Silvermoon and Suramar are horde and this will not suddenly change.. like the chances are so small that it becomes some weird headcanon story that is a wall of text no one wants to read.

Got to say that hes still here trying, even mace saw the flaw and understand were the blood elves come from. Not to say hes right in any way, but atleast there is some sense in the discussion(not always) but Ravenmoon just talks and talks and reading it makes my eye roll every time.

[vilememory]

What the fuck happened to this thread? I know I only poke my head in on occasion to see what is happening but wow... I can't make heads or tails anything going on now.

[Alanar]

I know you are trying to be generous with Ravenmoon, but I don't think that you can have a productive discussion with someone that wants to outright remove what they deem an elven identity from Blood Elves and Nightborne because elven identity and culture"belong to the alliance."

It's just such an insidious to outright say that Blood Elves don't deserve to be elves, it's just so weird.

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Not to agree with Varodoc on much beyond this, but it IS weird that we can't look like Alleria. And it's both about because Racial Leaders should be a representation of their races -and only Sylvanas was the exception to this, and it was relevant- And because it's still silly that of all the things, hair colors is what can't overlap.

We can look like Thalyssra and Lor'themar, what we don't have is their specific "styling" but the rest of their "base" appearance, skin color, eye color, hair color, all that is *part* of the playable races options. The problem with Alleria is that skin and eye color follow this logic, but not hair color, and there's no reason for it.

Like we have to admit there's an overlap between Void Elves and Blood Elves, as much as there was one between High Elves and Blood Elves, and while I do believe the lack of something close to Alleria's hair color makes no sense, I also believe there can be differentiation between VE and BE beyond those three phenotype characteristics.

That's where hairstyles and markings and jewelry matter, to showcase divergence not through biology, but culture.

And yet, I don't think VE need to have the same hair colors than BE's. They really could get more "ashy" "desaturated" or even "voided" shades of more natural hair colors.

And TBH, if Alleria's hair color itself was changed, I think that would be enough. If they literally said "yeah, using Void desaturates your hair" it would be just new lore lol. Still, I'd hope for more hair colors on VE's regardless, like Alleria's void form hair color.

In terms of styling, I still think that VE's could pattern themselves more to Alleria -Their Leader- and use more braids, war paint and feathers. Now I know some BE players also want those stuff and that's great, I really don't mind if VE and BE have an overlap, but would people like you be okay with that, or would you say that the styling that we only see in Alleria -Leader of the Void Elves- should belong exclusively to the Blood Elves instead?

Or you'd rather BE's get their own unique styling -such as Rommath like tattoos, scarification, etc?-

I think you just found the solution to stop this whole discussion.

Damn, eidnt see that one coming. Change Allerias haircolor slighty cus of the effect of the void and you have a racial leader that actually represents their race. Perfect.

Still you cant look like that, Lorthe mar has unique face and ontop of that using an unique cloth system that also effects hes hair. I see what you mean that those things are perfect to make that difference between player and leader s. The problem is that it still counts as: I cant look like that. Alleria besides her hair color, like sylvanas has a hood that shows the hair. Same for thalyssra btw. Those are things that the players realy would like to have as well, but we cant.

Nope, we cant look even close to Thalyssra m8. She is using a different model even, the playable nightborne are a problem on itself so its hard to say we can look like that. When even their faces are completely different.

Alleria isnt special in that in anyway, racial leaders are racial leaders and they alwqys have to stand out.

I mean sure, many blood elf fans were expecting scars or runic tattoos like the bc box. Or new cool hairstyles. None of it happened. Rommath is good example altho hes using a tattoo shirt( hes a fraud lol) but yes those are good options for blood elves only.

[Ardenaso]

What the fuck happened to this thread? I know I only poke my head in on occasion to see what is happening but wow... I can't make heads or tails anything going on now.

I still think we were arguing about Dark Rangers going to Blood Elves or Forsaken yesterday

[Vaedan]

What eludes me is that if Sin'dorei and Shal'dorei go to the Alliance, then they are simply "Humans and Pals."

That's the problem with the Alliance story. If you tone down the Humans and elevate the other races around them, the Alliance can become interesting.

Ravenmoon doesn't seem to want to admit that the problems with the Alliance story lies with the over-emphasis of one alliance race. The Horde is diverse so Blizzard has a wider ranger of story to play with. Thus far, the Alliance races, besides the Humans, are just mindless drones going "Yes Humans, No Humans, 3 bags full Humans."

I'd say Horde have the same problem actually. When I do quests on the Horde, its mostly Lok'tar Ogar orc stuff. It always annoyed me when I played non-orc characters, especially elves. When I leveled my Nightborne at the end of Legion, I felt I have no decent option for my character interests. It was quite good on mag'har though, but that's it. To be honest, blood elves have so little storylines outside of their starting zone, that they are basically just portal slaves for orc overlords. Not that different from what you describe on the Alliance.

Also, Alliance races actually have strong story potential, I would say they are equally interesting to Horde, but as you say, only humans get spotlight and are allowed to do cool things. Horde is similar, orcs are central figures of the Horde, other races are their buddies who charge into battle with them.

[Ardenaso]

I'd say Horde have the same problem actually. When I do quests on the Horde, its mostly Lok'tar Ogar orc stuff. It always annoyed me when I played non-orc characters, especially elves. When I leveled my Nightborne at the end of Legion, I felt I have no decent option for my character interests. It was quite good on mag'har though, but that's it. To be honest, blood elves have so little storylines outside of their starting zone, that they are basically just portal slaves for orc overlords. Not that different from what you describe on the Alliance.

Also, Alliance races actually have strong story potential, I would say they are equally interesting to Horde, but as you say, only humans get spotlight and are allowed to do cool things. Horde is similar, orcs are central figures of the Horde, other races are their buddies who charge into battle with them.

I mean when you compare it at least the non-orcs aren't getting drowned out by orcs

[Vaedan]

I mean when you compare it at least the non-orcs aren't getting drowned out by orcs

It is slightly better, but not that much. There are signs of change in the Alliance, night elves are getting moře attention lately.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I think you just found the solution to stop this whole discussion.

Damn, eidnt see that one coming. Change Allerias haircolor slighty cus of the effect of the void and you have a racial leader that actually represents their race. Perfect.

Still you cant look like that, Lorthe mar has unique face and ontop of that using an unique cloth system that also effects hes hair. I see what you mean that those things are perfect to make that difference between player and leader s. The problem is that it still counts as: I cant look like that. Alleria besides her hair color, like sylvanas has a hood that shows the hair. Same for thalyssra btw. Those are things that the players realy would like to have as well, but we cant.

Nope, we cant look even close to Thalyssra m8. She is using a different model even, the playable nightborne are a problem on itself so its hard to say we can look like that. When even their faces are completely different.

Alleria isnt special in that in anyway, racial leaders are racial leaders and they alwqys have to stand out.

I mean sure, many blood elf fans were expecting scars or runic tattoos like the bc box. Or new cool hairstyles. None of it happened. Rommath is good example altho hes using a tattoo shirt( hes a fraud lol) but yes those are good options for blood elves only.

I mean it's about the "phenotype" if you will. Yes, Thalyssra has a different model, but there's nothing in her appearance that makes her stand out/aside from the rest of the Nightborne in universe. Like of course racial leaders have different models to be set apart, but with Alleria it's not just that, it's that she is "unique" within her people. Even without playable Dark Ranger, you knew there where other DR's within the forsaken, so Sylvanas is representative of at least a segment of her people, but with Void Elves can't possibly "be" like Alleria.

So yeah, if Alleria had a regular VE hair color that would fix that issue -even if it's silly that VE's can have normal skin but not normal hair colors lol-

It's like, regardless of the unique model, all other racial leaders come from people that CAN look like them in universe. Only Alleria is the exception because VE's CAN'T be blonde lol.

It's just weird.

[Tanaria]

I'd say Horde have the same problem actually. When I do quests on the Horde, its mostly Lok'tar Ogar orc stuff. It always annoyed me when I played non-orc characters, especially elves. When I leveled my Nightborne at the end of Legion, I felt I have no decent option for my character interests. It was quite good on mag'har though, but that's it. To be honest, blood elves have so little storylines outside of their starting zone, that they are basically just portal slaves for orc overlords. Not that different from what you describe on the Alliance.

Also, Alliance races actually have strong story potential, I would say they are equally interesting to Horde, but as you say, only humans get spotlight and are allowed to do cool things. Horde is similar, orcs are central figures of the Horde, other races are their buddies who charge into battle with them.

That hasn't happened for the past 3 expansions.
Ever since Sylvanas was made Warchief to be honest and even when Vol'jin was Warchief. Blood Elves were the main face of the Horde, during the Legion expansion.
Their Farstriders had a story in Nazjatar.

The difference between them working for the Orcs, is that the Blood Elves don't turn daft and need Orcs to teach them how to "Mage", "Farstrider", or "Blood Knight." The Blood Elves and Nightborne have never needed to turn to the Orcs to seek their dominance, because the Horde is a diverse faction and the Horde writers know each Horde races' strengths and weaknesses, whereas the Alliance writers - all they can do is produce stories for Golden Boy Anduin and Jaina Proud-now-but-perhaps-not-in-10.0-moore.
On the Alliance, Tyrande needed Varian's advice on how to fight the Orcs in a woodland. Human Magi make up the main Alliance Mages. Not Void Elves or Gnomes.

[Alanar]

I mean it's about the "phenotype" if you will. Yes, Thalyssra has a different model, but there's nothing in her appearance that makes her stand out/aside from the rest of the Nightborne in universe. Like of course racial leaders have different models to be set apart, but with Alleria it's not just that, it's that she is "unique" within her people. Even without playable Dark Ranger, you knew there where other DR's within the forsaken, so Sylvanas is representative of at least a segment of her people, but with Void Elves can't possibly "be" like Alleria.

So yeah, if Alleria had a regular VE hair color that would fix that issue -even if it's silly that VE's can have normal skin but not normal hair colors lol-

It's like, regardless of the unique model, all other racial leaders come from people that CAN look like them in universe. Only Alleria is the exception because VE's CAN'T be blonde lol.

It's just weird.

Hmm, you do know what I mean with the whole nightborne problem right? Playable model sadly looks nothing like their npc counterparts.. so saying the player can look like thalyssra is completely false m8. Look at the eyes, ears, some hairstyles, jewelry etc. On top of that what you said: nothing of them makes them stand out. Well.. just look at their armor for example. I know they are build in one piece to no real gear, but playable vc npc is just to much of a difference. So no we cant look like them. People were stoked for them when we heard they were gonna be playable. We all know how well that ended. It shows in representation in how many people even play them.

Yup, I like the idea of just changing alleria hair color and be done with it. Not a fan of giving blonde hair to void elves, it doesnt fit them realy, blood elf 2.0. Alleria isnt an argument cus she never looked like a void elf. Umbric is a better representation to begin with imo. Ash colors and white and black should be an option for them. Alleria should have changed with them imo. Its almost like she isnt an void elf to begin with, now that is weird lol. Its the other way around.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Hmm, you do know what I mean with the whole nightborne problem right? Playable model sadly looks nothing like their npc counterparts.. so saying the player can look like thalyssra is completely false m8. Look at the eyes, ears, some hairstyles, jewelry etc. On top of that what you said: nothing of them makes them stand out. Well.. just look at their armor for example. I know they are build in one piece to no real gear, but playable vc npc is just to much of a difference. So no we cant look like them. People were stoked for them when we heard they were gonna be playable. We all know how well that ended. It shows in representation in how many people even play them.

That's why I bolded the IN UNIVERSE bit; Thalyssra isn't meant to look like a different race than the rest of her people with a unique "phenotype." Again, in universe, Thalyssra is just a Nightborne, beyond her styling she's meant to look like a regular Nightbore. I'm not talking about the quality of the models here.

Tyrande herself; unique model and styling, but greenm hair, purple skin, black eyes; those are ALL THINGS POSSIBLE FOR NE'S TO HAVE. That's my point; not about the limitations of models, but how all racial leaders with the exception of Alleria, represent an actual population within their faction; Alleria is the only racial leader that looks different in universe than the rest of her people, being a Void Elf that looks like a High Elf.

Yup, I like the idea of just changing alleria hair color and be done with it. Not a fan of giving blonde hair to void elves, it doesnt fit them realy, blood elf 2.0. Alleria isnt an argument cus she never looked like a void elf. Umbric is a better representation to begin with imo. Ash colors and white and black should be an option for them. Alleria should have changed with them imo. Its almost like she isnt an void elf to begin with, now that is weird lol. Its the other way around.

Perhaps, but is also odd to say that Alleria doesn't look like a Void Elf when she is the Original Void Elf, you know? Trying to enforce an aesthetic separation in terms of hair color seems a meta-artifice rather than originating from the lore. It's just so wild they tried -and retracted-to enforce a strict color scheme restriction that to many was a transparent attempt to make VE's different for distinction's sake.

So yeah, I can't say "blonde hair doesn't fit them" when Alleria literally has blonde hair, but I agree it would have been easier if her hair color got a bit washed out and that color was an option for players.

It's just silly that skin color can remain in a non-void touched state but not hair lol. It might serve a purpose of distinction, but it's almost moot given the rest of the overlap -VE and BE now can stand side by said and appear to be the same race, just with a different hair style, and it's just silly lore-wise.

[BaumanKing]

Perhaps, but is also odd to say that Alleria doesn't look like a Void Elf when she is the Original Void Elf, you know?

Even in her voidform she has white hair, while void elves do not. Which is kinda strange.

[shoc]

Hey guys... what if... ?

[Kyriani]

Hey guys... what if... ?

I wouldn't oppose it. More options to let people make their character look the way they wish is fine by me. I just hope that when they finally do get to Nightborne that the devs give them A LOT of time and effort. They need it... badly. Nightborne need tons of new options because they have so few and they need adjustments to their base model to be able to look much closer to the NPC Nightborne than they currently do.

[elbleuet]

Hey guys... what if... ?

That would make them Highborne. And Highborne rejoined the Alliance in Cataclysm.

[Beloren]

I'd say Horde have the same problem actually. When I do quests on the Horde, its mostly Lok'tar Ogar orc stuff. It always annoyed me when I played non-orc characters, especially elves. When I leveled my Nightborne at the end of Legion, I felt I have no decent option for my character interests. It was quite good on mag'har though, but that's it. To be honest, blood elves have so little storylines outside of their starting zone, that they are basically just portal slaves for orc overlords. Not that different from what you describe on the Alliance.

Also, Alliance races actually have strong story potential, I would say they are equally interesting to Horde, but as you say, only humans get spotlight and are allowed to do cool things. Horde is similar, orcs are central figures of the Horde, other races are their buddies who charge into battle with them.

It's because the alliance is humans and pals, and the horde orc and pals

The alliance would be more interesting if human monopoly was broken, alliance players will undoubtedly be most excitement if this came through the elves, but it isn't essential for the improvement of your faction.

The horde will lose it's diversity if the high elves were stripped from the blood elves' character and the faction will feel more monotone, although lese homogenised. it's monotony versus homogeny, and seeing that homogeny isn't so bad, can you or Ravenmoon guaranteed monotony would be an improvement? Surely it's better or at least acceptable leave things as is?

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That would make them Highborne. And Highborne rejoined the Alliance in Cataclysm.

They are as much highborne now as they would be with new skin tones. Even with their different appearance, how can anyone not look at these and not see Kaldorei . to me they're just night elves with a different skin body slider on the thin grade rather than the medium of the night elf. Pre-sundering vein night elves. Even their faces look like skinny kaldorei

[Ardenaso]

That would make them Highborne. And Highborne rejoined the Alliance in Cataclysm.

then we could make some Highborne reunite with the Nightborne like those in the Moonguard Stronghold

it took like 3-4 years for the Shen'dralar to be reaccepted into the Night Elf society with distate, disdain, and grueling tolerance; the Moonlances should go Horde

[ravenmoon]

It's because the alliance is humans and pals, and the horde orc and pals

The alliance would be more interesting if human monopoly was broken, alliance players will undoubtedly be most excitement if this came through the elves, but it isn't essential for the improvement of your faction.

The horde will lose it's diversity if the high elves were stripped from the blood elves' character and the faction will feel more monotone, although lese homogenised. it's monotony versus homogeny, and seeing that homogeny isn't so bad, can you or Ravenmoon guaranteed monotony would be an improvement? Surely it's better or at least acceptable leave things as is?

The horde will not feel monotonous if blood elves lose their Highborne bits. T o avoid the horde feeling monotonous just introduce interesting unique options. explore the Pandaren further, they're unique, show nuance between the orc clans, bring out more of the different troll races, and develop the blood elves and Nightborne that have moved away from their current high elven and night elven civilization/empire character to something else

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It is slightly better, but not that much. There are signs of change in the Alliance, night elves are getting moře attention lately.

Very slow gradual changes, They need to be bold and emphatic.

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I mean it's about the "phenotype" if you will. Yes, Thalyssra has a different model, but there's nothing in her appearance that makes her stand out/aside from the rest of the Nightborne in universe. Like of course racial leaders have different models to be set apart, but with Alleria it's not just that, it's that she is "unique" within her people. Even without playable Dark Ranger, you knew there where other DR's within the forsaken, so Sylvanas is representative of at least a segment of her people, but with Void Elves can't possibly "be" like Alleria.

So yeah, if Alleria had a regular VE hair color that would fix that issue -even if it's silly that VE's can have normal skin but not normal hair colors lol-

It's like, regardless of the unique model, all other racial leaders come from people that CAN look like them in universe. Only Alleria is the exception because VE's CAN'T be blonde lol.

It's just weird.

Any excuse for the Alliance players not to gain high elven appearances, when what they actually need is the high elves back on the alliance emphatically and the blood elves losing that part of their heritage so they can fully integrate and be a part of the horde.

you can't have your cake and eat it, and the irony is you want the alliance cake - but it's not the best thing for the faction or the game. If blizzard keep this up they are the ones putting the stumbling block in their franchises progress

[Tanaria]

The horde will not feel monotonous if blood elves lose their Highborne bits. T o avoid the horde feeling monotonous just introduce interesting unique options. explore the Pandaren further, they're unique, show nuance between the orc clans, bring out more of the different troll races, and develop the blood elves and Nightborne that have moved away from their current high elven and night elven civilization/empire character to something else

How many times do you have to be told?
Their is no playable race called "High Elves."

It's Void Elves and Blood Elves and the former are being developed away from their core race. Blood Elves don't need changing because they are the main race.

Also, we've seen alot of Troll stuff in BFA.

I just walked around Silvermoon and the Nighthold and it felt so good knowing these places are on the Horde.

If you want them...then we simple take all Night Elf lands and the Sunwell and second Well of Eternity belong to the Horde. Void Elves can't have the Sunwell so the Sin'dorei Magisters, under the command of Rommath and Lor'themar, teleport it to Ashenvale and their, both Sin'dorei and Shal'dorei, under Lor'themar and Thalyssra's leadership, take control of the second Well of Eternity.

The magics can be used to shield Kalimdor from any assaults made by the Alliance, so the Night Elves can't ever reclaim their lands again. I'm sorry, but Night elves must take another beating to compensate for the Horde losses. Void Elves can't take the shared beating as they live on another world, so Night Elves must suffer on the same level as Blood Elves and Nightborne.
I mean, you might like what the Horde Elves do to the land. Building up new Silvermoon and Suramar as well as claiming Eldre'Thalas, but you've got to be hurt as well. You don't get any of Kalimdor. The Night Elf lands are claimed by Lor'themar and Thalyssra.

Ashenvale would look good with the Sunwell Plateau and Magister's Terrace - perhaps the forest itself could renamed to something more blood elven, like Anar'thalas or Felo'thalas.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Any excuse for the Alliance players not to gain high elven appearances, when what they actually need is the high elves back on the alliance emphatically and the blood elves losing that part of their heritage so they can fully integrate and be a part of the horde.

you can't have your cake and eat it, and the irony is you want the alliance cake - but it's not the best thing for the faction or the game. If blizzard keep this up they are the ones putting the stumbling block in their franchises progress

Dude you want BE's to loose their identity because you think "it will be better for the factions"; so the logic underneath everything you say is deeply flawed. Like for real, your views of the factions identity and what they mean just seem bonkers to me, and everything you say stems from that bizarre view, where you think that literally taking blood elves' identity away would make them fit better on the horde, because their identity is alliance-coded. It's utter nonsense.

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Even in her voidform she has white hair, while void elves do not. Which is kinda strange.

Indeed; and it's actually a very specific kind of why, with a slight blue to pink shade to it. Overall it's just bizarre that Void Elves are the only race that don't have either white or black hair lol.

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Hey guys... what if... ?

Yeah, Nightborne definitely need more skin colors and wouldn't bother me to see more "peach skinned" tones, but I really want more dusky and deep shades rather than that.