Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Yeah you can't expect every WoW player to cross over that gap, since 14 is a big difference from WoW. "RPG-MMO" as Jesse Cox popularized. Folks going in are going in wanting a Final Fantasy/Elder Scrolls scale and depth to the story with the MMO mechanics on top as garnish rather than the other way around.

Though I will disagree slightly on your statement that doubling down on Story wont help WoW. I think it's entirely possible that WoW can double down on its story and not alienate the existing players, they just need to be smart about how they do it. They've got the groundwork already for an "MSQ" between the War Campaign and Covenant Campaign, it's largely just about making characters and a story arc people will care about which they have thus far repeatedly failed miserably at.

Honestly this take may be hot to some vets here, but the old race/class leaders need to be put out to pasture. No more Anduin, Thrall, Baine, Tyrande, Jaina, et al. Let's get some characters in there that feel more like they're actually on our level of power and fame, folks like Zek'han or Talia.

I agree that the old factions and characters have been thoroughly exhausted, but at this point it doesn't matter what characters Blizzard uses; the execution of the writing is still going to be bad. No one cares about the new characters of Calia or Bolvar's daughter or that Nightborne lady or the Primus. People still have an emotional investment in the old characters like Thrall and Anduin, who were created back when the story was still decent. Blizzard mind as well stick with them. When the writing was still decent, new material like Pandaria could be pulled out of thin air and people would like it. But when you have bad writing you get Shadowlands, and people are begging to go back to what is familiar. It seems people would rather have bad writing with characters and factions they at least liked, like BFA, then have bad writing with new characters and factions they never cared about (Shadowlands).

[Makabreska]

Quarterly report is up.

[Sondrelk]

I am hoping they do a soft reboot for 10.0's story. You don't have to be an old player to know Turalyon = military light guy, Thrall = nice guy orc, Azhara = bad tentacle elf, etc.

All a new player needs to know is that you have a somewhat generic cast of fantasy races. Forsaken are former zombies who gained sentience, and that Orcs and Draenei are from different planets that got destroyed by demons.
Stuff like the War of the Ancients, or that Velen is several milennia old and was the leader of the race that became the lead demons isnt really that important for enjoyment of the story.

A new set of quests for 10-50 players that quickly explain the smaller nuances of the different races' history, and what they want going forward is all a new player needs to know to really get into the game.
Stuff like Shadowlands is already an outlier in how much knowledge the player needs to know to make sense of what is happening in the intro. For expansions like BfA you just need to know that Kul Tiras is a naval nation of humans, and that the Zandalari is a race of trolls.

[draugril]

Same here. Story that accumulated is exhausting.

WoW's story has been cliffhanger after dangled carrot after cliffhanger with no resolution for years. It's not really a story at all - just a manipulation.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Quarterly report is up.

MAUs down, fucking called it.

They were doing damage control on that weeks ago already. Caved to some of the ABABK demands, cut Kotick's pay, the Ion interview, the Player Council move. It was all attempts to show investors "look we're trying to improve for Q4!"

[Makabreska]

All a new player needs to know is that you have a somewhat generic cast of fantasy races. Forsaken are former zombies who gained sentience, and that Orcs and Draenei are from different planets that got destroyed by demons.
Stuff like the War of the Ancients, or that Velen is several milennia old and was the leader of the race that became the lead demons isnt really that important for enjoyment of the story.

A new set of quests for 10-50 players that quickly explain the smaller nuances of the different races' history, and what they want going forward is all a new player needs to know to really get into the game.
Stuff like Shadowlands is already an outlier in how much knowledge the player needs to know to make sense of what is happening in the intro. For expansions like BfA you just need to know that Kul Tiras is a naval nation of humans, and that the Zandalari is a race of trolls.

It is just not doable to bring new players up to speed of 16+ years WoW history on top of Warcraft I-III.

- - - Updated - - -

MAUs down, fucking called it.

They were doing damage control on that weeks ago already. Caved to some of the ABABK demands, cut Kotick's pay, the Ion interview, the Player Council move. It was all attempts to show investors "look we're trying to improve for Q4!"

Ye, got any more calls? Blizz MAU's didn't change since last time.

[Kereberus]

MAUs down, fucking called it.

They were doing damage control on that weeks ago already. Caved to some of the ABABK demands, cut Kotick's pay, the Ion interview, the Player Council move. It was all attempts to show investors "look we're trying to improve for Q4!"

MAUs are the exact same? 26 Million to 26 Million.

[Sondrelk]

Same here. Story that accumulated is exhausting.

Most of the story is extraneous. The firelands invasion into Hyjal for instance can essentially be ignored by any player that just wants to know the bare minimum of whats happening in the current story.

[Makabreska]

MAUs are the exact same? 26 Million to 26 Million.

Man, he went so fast on hate train that he stopped reading after first line.

[draugril]

Most of the story is extraneous. The firelands invasion into Hyjal for instance can essentially be ignored by any player that just wants to know the bare minimum of whats happening in the current story.

I would argue that the Firelands told its own story with a clear beginning, middle, and end. It originated with the expansion's events, sure, but it actually resolved. That's rare in WarCraft storytelling.

[Azxza]

MAUs are the exact same? 26 Million to 26 Million.

That's with Diablo 2, their major release of the year btw.

Without Diablo 2 that number would be considerably lower.

So yes, MAUs did absolutely go down in the WoW sector.

[Sondrelk]

It is just not doable to bring new players up to speed of 16+ years WoW history on top of Warcraft I-III.

You don't need to bring players up on everything. Just a curated selection of the most important tidbits are enough to really get into the story.
A questline that brings up the Forsaken would tell all the important bits of the Arthas storyline for instance, which would in turn explain pretty much all the salient points needed to understand Wrath of the Lich King if players go back and play that.

It is valid to just give the bare bones neeed to understand the sotry that is currently being told, and then ask the player to go back to Outland if they want to see what Illidan did, or go to Pandaria to see why Garrosh is controversial.

[EbaumsTipster]

That's with Diablo 2, their major release of the year btw.

Without Diablo 2 that number would be considerably lower.

So yes, MAUs did absolutely go down in the WoW sector.

Got a source for that?

[Nyel]

New sword got snuck into 9.1.5 that has a First One appearance. Maybe a hint that we are getting Zereth Mortis as a raid?

How is that ugly thing indicative of the First Ones?

[Sondrelk]

I would argue that the Firelands told its own story with a clear beginning, middle, and end. It originated with the expansion's events, sure, but it actually resolved. That's rare in WarCraft storytelling.

That is true for pretty much every story the game tells. The only ones I can think of that was open-ended are ones that are still ongoing.

If N'zoth returns you don't need to explain the entirety of his interractions in Cataclysm and BfA. A simple quest that explains how Old Gods are cosmic parasites that has plagued Azeroth since before the sentient races existed is enough.

[Nyel]

Got a source for that?

I mean they did release 9.1 and Diablo II this quarter. This basically means MAUs were dropping elsewhere. Two releases and MAUs didn’t go up? Ouch.

[Makabreska]

You don't need to bring players up on everything. Just a curated selection of the most important tidbits are enough to really get into the story.
A questline that brings up the Forsaken would tell all the important bits of the Arthas storyline for instance, which would in turn explain pretty much all the salient points needed to understand Wrath of the Lich King if players go back and play that.

It is valid to just give the bare bones neeed to understand the sotry that is currently being told, and then ask the player to go back to Outland if they want to see what Illidan did, or go to Pandaria to see why Garrosh is controversial.

It's still too much. You got the origin of Horde and Alliance and their war that's relevant. That the Horde came from Draenor with BL.That brings BL as a major, shaping force. We just had BfA, that touched Azshara, which means the Sundering and civilization before that, their relationship with current elves etc. Then we got Old Gods, that means their history and motives. Not to even mention Sylvanas and her presence and doings since W3, Anduin, therefore his father, Thrall and his story. It is just damn too much. And SL has it actually easy, because we move to a different dimension separated from Azeroth.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

They can just do a summary of each expansion if need be.

[EbaumsTipster]

How is that ugly thing indicative of the First Ones?

Same colors and design. Even the blade material.

I just looked at the model and it does have more red on it, so it could be a Dreadlord weapon?

[Lahis]

And how do you know that the story is main incentive?

Most people don't give a rat's ass about it, and those who do have given up hope it ever being worth any time put into it again.