Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Daymanmb]

Oh, the Russian people could do something about it. They seem content to just bury their heads in the sand, however. These are a people who have lived under authoritarian rule for centuries with only a brief flirtation with actual democracy in the 90s after the Soviet Union fell before Putin got his grip on power.

The Russian people could take to the streets and protest in numbers too big for Putins goons to contain but instead they are just meekly obeying a tyrant. That's why my sympathy for them is diluted somewhat.

Im pretty sure Putin just called dissenters the 5th column and basically threatened their lives, as bugs to be spit out and purged from society.

[ati87]

Yea, and germany owes billions to all of europe.

I think we established at the end of WW1 that system doesnt work, and played a good part in causing WW2

You learned the wrong lesson.
WW1 and WW2 both had reparations except WW1 was a massive with a short payment term that Germany or any other country could never repay it.

[Veggie50]

You learned the wrong lesson.
WW1 and WW2 both had reparations except WW1 was a massive with a short payment term that Germany or any other country could never repay it.

No money was paid as reparations after WW2.

There was some forced labour of POW’s and such, but at no point did germany settle a bill.

[Poopymonster]

And no doubt they'll just wave the nuke card again to prevent interference. But its going to take a lot longer than 6 months to rebuild their forces before Russia can even think of going again. Probably looking at a few years, especially with all the sanctions. Meanwhile Ukraine is probably going to be given so much stuff that this time they'll be properly armed before any attack.

It takes about 20 years to raise a fresh crop of cannon fodder.

[Veggie50]

It takes about 20 years to raise a fresh crop of cannon fodder.

Far less actually. 20 years would be if every single soldier was gone.

[Poopymonster]

No money was paid as reparations after WW2.

There was some forced labour of POW’s and such, but at no point did germany settle a bill.

They certainly tried to settle the bill from WW 1.
But they lost WW 2.

[zealo]

You learned the wrong lesson.
WW1 and WW2 both had reparations except WW1 was a massive with a short payment term that Germany or any other country could never repay it.

You learnt wrong about WW1.

The reparations the entente forced upon Germany weren't worse than the ones the Germans themselves had forced on France after 1870, neither were other parts of the treaty harsher than the Germans had forced upon Russia in Brest-Litovsk in 1918. Neither did the war ever reach the industrial heartlands of Germany proper, Russia lost in the east to Germany and the ceasefire in the west came while the Germans were still on French soil.

The sticking point driving events in Germany in the interwar period were rather that the Germans believed they had been stabbed in the back at the home front during the war, and that they hadn't been as decisively beaten militarily as they actually were in the process of being as the Americans had started to arrive in force, and the front were crumbling to the extent were the Entente would have rolled over Germany in 1919, and thus regarded terms imposed by the victors of the war to be undeserved and resented it and the idea that they should pay for it.

That is to say, a lot of Germany's struggles with reparations payments were of a political rather than strictly economical nature. On the right wing in Weimar Germany sentiments existed that doing things like raising taxes to fund reparations being something that would have been treason against Germany, and so the social-democrat government were forced to borrow from abroad to pay with, chiefly American sourced loans. That worked ok for a time, but that came crumbling down as the Great Depression started to unfold and sent shock-waves through the world economy.

[Poopymonster]

Far less actually. 20 years would be if every single soldier was gone.

That's why I said a "Fresh crop".

The current batches know they've been lied to. They've seen some of the reality of it. They're damaged goods from a military perspective and would make horrible cannon fodder.

[Magical Mudcrab]

No, Putin is not "implicitly killing random American journalists." They were reporting from a war zone and got killed. That's a risk they take. It sucks, but it's war.

I know this likely wasn't meant like this, but your description seems to try and absolve Russia of killing journalists, making it out as being a matter of course rather than an issue with how Russia is operating. It would be a bit like "I know they bombed a doctors without borders camp, but it's in a war zone. It sucks, but it's war." I think everyone can appreciate that they were taking a risk, but killing journalists who are in a war zone is still a war crime.

[Veggie50]

That's why I said a "Fresh crop".

The current batches know they've been lied to. They've seen some of the reality of it. They're damaged goods from a military perspective and would make horrible cannon fodder.

Your damaged goods soldiers are actually the BEST cannon fodder

[Gaidax]

The current batches know they've been lied to.

PepeLaugh...

What they gonna do? To not go to mandatory service and go to jail instead? You think 'em kids from the middle of nowhere with parents that have no connection have any say in this whole thing.

People in this thread keep trying to measure Russia with Western ruler. It's not working this way.

They think their average gopnik from Russian version of Alabama is sitting in BBC reading what's what. Hell you have idiots in US drinking bleach and swallowing cow dewormer because their fav propagandist told them to. Same here - they got drilled in their brains Russia stronk and right at school for a decade and they are far from Moscow's elitists to even seek different opinion or have the actual capacity to do so.

So yeah, Russia is a 140 million strong country, they have plenty fresh dumb meat coming up next season. And a good bunch of them are like Peacemaker fighting for "the right cause", good kids that got bad ideas drilled in their heads from childhood.

- - - Updated - - -

And for every 1 18-20yo that even thinks to ask questions there will be 3 guys who will be "holy shit I get some rubles if I sign this contract for a few months, so family can get some money to get some nice stuff for my little sister, lets wing it". Russia can live with this ratio.

[Draco-Onis]

Who knew MMO-C was so full of Che Guevaras, brave heroes who would be willing to risk their life and those of their families to overthrow dictators /s

[Poopymonster]

Your damaged goods soldiers are actually the BEST cannon fodder

They're more likely to desert, surrender, or buckle. Unless they bring in Commissars. Then EVERYONE is the best cannon fodder.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Who knew MMO-C was so full of Che Guevaras, brave heroes who would be willing to risk their life and those of their families to overthrow dictators /s

Unsure of the relevance to this thread, but is this meant to be the part where we all stand up and say "I'm Che Guevara" before charging a group of Bolivian soldiers?

[Collegeguy]

Agreeing to a disarmament is basically letting Russia say "alright we're gonna call a T.O so we can rebuild our forces, iron out all the logistical problems we ran into, reinvest and reconstruct our economy in ways that aren't nearly as affected by sanctions, and then make sure you have absolutely no way to defend yourself... and we totally swear we'll be cool after that!"

...until of course Russia cooks up some other bullshit reason they think gives them the right to invade and they just do this all over again, just with them far more prepared and Ukraine far less prepared.

I think Ukraine knows that, in the current iteration, Russia can't really ever win. Even if they occupy Ukraine, they'll face stiff, constant, and violent resistance not-so-subtly funded by western governments to sew chaos and discord. And Russia will continue to be the global pariah, untouchable by investors and under constant heavy sanction that causes their economy to continue its further collapse.

Basically, Ukraine is the fatally poisonous animal that gets eaten... but takes Russia, the predator, down with it.

Putin is an idealist that has been subversive his entire political career. Just like Hitler wanted Lebensraum, Putin wants the USSR, and he has demonstrated every deception to reach it. Disarmament next to someone who invaded under lies and can't historically be trusted is not a great idea.

[Easo]

Euro is actually a close second to USD. The most used currency used for international payment in 2021 - USD (40.51%), Euro (36.65%), Pound (5.89%), Yuan (2.7%), Yen (2.58%).

When we are talking about SWIFT transactions, Yuan only ranked 6th. Behind USD, Euro, Pound, Yen, AUD. Rather odd when you consider that the Chinese is the second largest economy in the world.

And the big question is - will it change? It certainly is something China would wish to happen and is trying to happen, so is Russia (but clearly not viable with rouble xD) + all the other places who are not exactly allies to States/West.

Russian missiles targeted Lviv today. They reported struck somewhere near the airport, but not the airport directly.

One wonders if they're starting to target suspected stockpiles of foreign aid shipments.

You mean what they pretty much threatened to do? Remember the missile strike on the foreigner volunteer base?

Wasnt the claim that Ukrainian soldiers are using ambulances as common place?

Sorry not sorry that I could not find exactly that amongst the crapload of posts in the last 3 weeks. And... I did say "similar things" - which these are. I mean, I could also post nasty shit like Territorial Defense unit killing a grandpa, but there would be little point.
All I am saying (not sure what Gaaz tried to, because his post history is interesting and points him out as someone from Ukraine who is clearly pro-Russian) that this is norm in a war, everyone does it, outrage by any side is useless, because that's how it works in the sad real world.

Im pretty sure Putin just called dissenters the 5th column and basically threatened their lives, as bugs to be spit out and purged from society.

Are you surprised? Standard rhetoric for autocrats and the like. And let me tell you, Russia especially loves to use "5th column" moniker.

[Clone]

Just Putins death? No.

Russia would have to make formal apologies, social reforms and amendments to their constitution, most likely.

I'd demand splitting them into several smaller states too.

[Veggie50]

I'd demand splitting them into several smaller states too.

While I agree with the sentiment, I doubt this would have the intended effect.

If russia (or any state) splits up, it should be by internal pressures, not external pressures.

[Easo]

I'd demand splitting them into several smaller states too.

You want more conflicts in the future? People, please, start thinking with your head for a bit.

[Shrouded]

While I agree with the sentiment, I doubt this would have the intended effect.

If russia (or any state) splits up, it should be by internal pressures, not external pressures.

I agree. But thinking about this, I realized that I don't know enough about Russia to answer this question - it's a huge country. Does Russia have any "natural" ways it could split from internal pressure, be they cultural, political, geographical or otherwise? My gut tells me no, they're pretty unified, but perhaps someone with better insight into Russian subregions or cultures can provide a better answer than my own?