Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Darththeo]

Oh let me guess is this the part where you point out VE's, Nightborne, and Pandaren and declare you've proven something?

Void Elves are seemingly different enough with their skin tones, tentacles, and void transformation during combat. Nightborne different enough with hair colors (I believe) that NE don't have access to, skin tones, and tattoos. And the failed Pandaren experiment that to this date; 6 years later, have not been replicated in that there have been no other neutral races.

You know what isn't different from High Elves? High Elves. You know what Blood Elves are? High Elves. And what are High Elves? High Elves. And that there is the problem.

But sure, maintain that delusion of you believing you have a point.

You think that those races are the only things that break the "faction wall"? My sweet summer child, you are wrong.

[Ithekro]

Hey btw, the sky is purple. Trust me.

That depends on what zone you are in. Some places the sky is green, and others its orange.

[Darththeo]

Oh, damn you got a point there! Shit! Why didn't I see that?!?

Oh yeah, because you didn't post anything.

Hey btw, the sky is purple. Trust me.

I get tired of posting the same stuff in this topic because people like you are incapable of seeing what is plainly in front of you

[Malacrass]

I’m offended that he’s told you no more than once but you cover your ears and say that what the game director says isn’t true or good enough for you.

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I 100% support this. End this Helf discussion once and for all. Would be great for sin’dorei lore too

Sorry I misremembered, the new customisation option is golden eyes for Blood Elves due to sunwell crack

http://de.wowhead.com/news=282946/bl...hree-new-faces

But maybe they can find a middleground. The junkies living around the well go full gold, while the people in the outskirts of Silvermoon are just cured from the fel.

[Melsiren]

So woke, I am happy we have this guy.

[Darththeo]

So you have no other evidence. Cool, glad we got that covered. You can stop replying to me then.

Sure as you tell me about the Vanilla Horde Paladins and the Vanilla Alliance Shamans and how Blood Elves were originally given to the Horde and Worgen to the Alliance despite fitting the "themes" of the opposing faction ... See? There is more, it's obvious and I get tired of mentioning it.

And a Void Elf is just a purple Blood Elf and a Nightborne is a Nelf with silver/white hair and tattoos.
Do I need to go on? The Faction Wall has been blurred every expansion including BfA .. the idea it's a rigid wall that cannot be eroded or blurred is pure nonsense.

It's not I don't have more evidence, I get tired of repeating myself to you Anti-Helfers who don't have the decency to pay attention to the topic. And your only counters boil down to "don't count" and "was a failure"

[Darththeo]

What about them? What does this have to do with races and the faction wall.

Did you really ask what about Vanilla Horde Paladins and Vanilla Alliance Shamans? You do know they didn't exist right (at least as playable)?

I know some people in this thread seemingly like to pretend that WC3 never happened seeing as they want "the Elves of Wc2". But Blood Elves chose to side with the Horde considering the Alliance (at the time) was hell bent on killing them off as canon fodder on the front lines. Why should they stick around for it?

And this really doesn't counter my point. It doesn't change the fact thematically Blood Elves fit Alliance, not Horde.

Because Genn thought the Horde should be put down instead of being put in internment camps. Why in the seven hells would he join with what he hates?

Same reason Blood Elves joined the Horde after fighting the Amani and Horde as High Elves. Why would the Blood Elves join one enemy because one race in the Alliance treated them poorly? Again, you are thinking literal and my question is about THEMES and actual faction identity ... it seems you think identity is who you are only rather than what you are as well.

Orcs, Trolls, and Tauren all have the noble savage theme ... Worgen can be viewed the same way. Blood Elves and Worgen were made playable to encourage the opposing faction to try the other side.

Stuff covered in years of lore since WC2, WC3, and WoW. You've presented nothing that hasn't been refuted so far.

Claiming something has been "refuted" doesn't make it refuted.

There it is, it's like I'm psychic! And that's been covered and addressed already.

Doesn't really change the fact that is really all they are now does it?

[Ithekro]

The simplest point to be made is that the Alliance still has High Elves, and has had High Elves since the first day that World of Warcraft launched. They haven't gone away. They are still there. And that is why people want to play as them. That is not hard to understand, nor does it have anything to do with the Horde or Blood Elves. People want to play what they can see in their faction, and High Elves are one of those things and have been one of those things since the game started.

[Darththeo]

Still has nothing to do with the Race and Faction wall. So I'll ask again, what's your point?

It shows you don't understand the concept of a "Faction Wall." It's not just about race.

Does not matter what they look like and what is perceived as where they should be. What matters is the story. You don't get to disregard that, even though you're going to.

I haven't, but that doesn't change when concerning the ideal of faction identity.

This is speaking to themes and perception, not what is. And what IS, is that the Blood Elves have; according to the lore, joined the Horde. And they joined the faction that; again at the time, wasn't trying to get them killed.

Again, perceptions. Just because you perceive them; thematically (or some other way), for one side does not mean they should be on that side. Worgen being the perfect example. Genn hated the Horde and thought they should be killed off and not put in internment camps. Why would he all of a sudden decide to join the Horde?

Do you even understand the concept of faction identity? If it is just about what is ... it's a meaningless tautology. So essentially, the conclusion you are arguing for is that "Faction Wall" is a meaningless distinction which means why would you care if it is blurred at all? You are already arguing to make it meaningless, but can't see it.

And repeating yourself and choosing to ignore facts doesn't make them go away either, but hey, here you are.

You haven't in fact refuted anything ... but keep trying. Unlike you, I haven't ignored facts ... you have chosen to dance around questions because you don't understand the concept.

Different enough in Blizzards eye. You know what's not different enough in Blizzard eye?

And despite what you people think Blizzard can in fact be wrong about their creation.

[FlubberPuddy]

Then hopefully Blizzard does something to take that away. Whether it's being consumed by Void Elves, putting out Half-Elves, or simply rejoining Silvermoon for whatever reason. In terms of playability the faction wall should be adhered to, imo anyways.

Lol! High Elves whole M.O. is that they don't delve into/rely on magics as dependently as their blood elf/void elf brethren. So I don't see that ever happening. And a few HE being in the rift doesn't equal the full force of HEs turning to the Void just in case someone wants to point that out, again.

They definitely wouldn't rejoin Silvermoon ever as they've been continually shown to hate the Blood Elves. So that's another option that wouldn't ever happen. Heck we even see data-mined chatter that NEs are talking about the 'potential of humans' and High Elves were recognized as "diluting their bloodlines" in that regard.

So honestly, those 2 above reasons, for so many people that like to bring in lore and say "High Elves are Blood Elves now" really seem to for some illogical reason think High Elves would go back to Silvermoon. That's not supported in any major way, neither is intentionally turning to a corruptive magic source like the BE and VE.

Looks like some anti-helfers need to brush up on their own lore, if they even care to do.

Now the point about Half-Elves, that's a maybe. Except there's been no huge push or showing for Half-elves in the universe and game, so that's pretty unlikely but possible scenario as well.

I think the simplest implementation would be to add High Elves but first they have to meet 1 of 2 criteria they aren't meeting yet:

1) More developing of their story to where they do become more visually different than Blood Elves to be playable.

2) Be shown as a more active proponent in the current storyline that happens to take place during their introduction (even though technically they've had more development than some playable races already).

I think once either of those criteria are met then they'll be playable.

The whole "hope HEs just die out" is also illogical to say too since continually people were speculating that they'd die at Teldrassil, then that didn't happen. Then it moved to hope there's no presence of them in BfA. Then that didn't happen with additional High Elves being added. Now the goal-post has been recently moved to, "OK AFTER BFA NO MORE HIGH ELVES!"

That in itself is hilarious to see.

[Ithekro]

The Worgen argument is incorrect in Vanilla to Wrath terms, since there was little to indicate that they were strictly Gilnaes. Duskwood and Ashvale had them for years and were considered by some to be a good savage Horde material. I don't remember if the Silverpine Worgen were redirectly tired to Gilnaes in Vanilla or just to Shadowfang Keep. I say that because I didn't do the Silverpine quests more than halfway through on my Horde characters until CATA, because screw that place in Vanilla. By the time of TBC, most people leveled for that level range in the Barrens or Ghostlands, because Silverpine Forest was bad back then.

[FlubberPuddy]

On the faction wall debate:

As said previously by the recent John Hight interview. Blizzard specifically look at what one faction has more of than the other and then decide to swap those themes to the other side.

This is why Horde has had mostly Elves added to their races. Because Horde is/was considered "ugly and tough" and they needed more pretty races haha

And this is why Alliance has been getting "Alien races" and "tough guy" because they've already had a lot of pretty races

So that's another thing that picks at this supposed "important faction wall"

[Ithekro]

SoulSoBreezy, Horde Bias or not, made a video recently that does give a good point about the High Elves as they are currently in game. They are not unified, nor do they have their own clear objective or leader. They are there, in many places, so they exist and all, but their own unified faction is not quite on par yet. Yet being a key word.

The High Elves, as they are right now, need a faction leader, a goal, and probably a rename, they aren't as high as they once were, and their legacy is almost gone from the days of the Highborn (which was pointed out at Suramar). However they are a thing, and they aren't going away soon as far as we know. So we'd like Blizzard to do something with them and make the playable within the faction they are currently in.

The elves out in Outland might be the key. Outland Elves (as oppose to Draenor Elves) could have mutated a bit, as they were floating around on a shattered world in the Twisting Nether for a few decades. The Blood Elves mutated a bit in far less time....twice now it seems now that some of them are getting Yellow eyes from the Light imbued Sunwell. Have them finally return home, rejoining their Alliance allied High Elf brethren along with the Silver Covenant. Either place them under Vereesa Windrunner or Auric Sunchaser, and have them be their own faction within the Alliance. Wars do terrible things, and with the Horde and Alliance in a full on hot war, with Silvermoon being surrounded, it is entirely reasonable for the Blood Elves to cut their Alliance allied brethren off from the Sunwell like they would have to do with the Void Elves. Too much risk of an Alliance attack if they let in known sympathizers into the city, much less the Sunwell itself. Besides, someone might try to chuck a piece of Azerite in there, just to see what happens.

Void Elves doesn't fill that need presently because of how they designed that story. They didn't make them the High Elves that were in the Alliance embracing the Void, or being converted by force into the Void, only to be saved by a Windrunner. No, they are Blood Elves that were dabbling into the Void, got noticed by something and forcibly converted into Void beings, stopped partway through by a Windrunner, giving us Void Elves. But Void Elves that were on the Horde only a few days ago (more or less) or at least within the timeframe of Legion, since they seemed to start actively searching for Void Lore/Power as a means to defend Silvermoon from the Legion recently.

[corebit]

The elves out in Outland might be the key. Outland Elves (as oppose to Draenor Elves) could have mutated a bit, as they were floating around on a shattered world in the Twisting Nether for a few decades. The Blood Elves mutated a bit in far less time....twice now it seems now that some of them are getting Yellow eyes from the Light imbued Sunwell. Have them finally return home, rejoining their Alliance allied High Elf brethren along with the Silver Covenant. Either place them under Vereesa Windrunner or Auric Sunchaser, and have them be their own faction within the Alliance. Wars do terrible things, and with the Horde and Alliance in a full on hot war, with Silvermoon being surrounded, it is entirely reasonable for the Blood Elves to cut their Alliance allied brethren off from the Sunwell like they would have to do with the Void Elves. Too much risk of an Alliance attack if they let in known sympathizers into the city, much less the Sunwell itself. Besides, someone might try to chuck a piece of Azerite in there, just to see what happens.

Outland is stuck in the past and frozen in time, Allerian Stronghold might not even be there anymore or its inhabitants may have moved on. Also there is zero evidence that there is something there that causes mutation except for the fel, and that's concentrated in specific places that aren't populated by High Elves. Maybe you're trying too hard to think it in terms of nuclear destruction.

[Byleth]

You haven't in fact refuted anything ... but keep trying. Unlike you, I haven't ignored facts ... you have chosen to dance around questions because you don't understand the concept.

You think we don't see you trolling Darth, but we do.

Your above comment is literally exactly what you are doing. Your arguments have had ZERO substance for a long time now, and your excuse is that you have already made the argument previously... Yet we've not actually seen any proof of this, no matter how far back we go in this abominable thread.

You are so good at ignoring facts and context that you could be a communications director for Trump.

[Aldo Hawk]

You think we don't see you trolling Darth, but we do.

Your above comment is literally exactly what you are doing. Your arguments have had ZERO substance for a long time now, and your excuse is that you have already made the argument previously... Yet we've not actually seen any proof of this, no matter how far back we go in this abominable thread.

You are so good at ignoring facts and context that you could be a communications director for Trump.

Yzak didn't refuted anything, so what are you talking about?

Arguments doesn't loose 'substance' over the course of time, those arguments were repeated a hundred times here and by more people than him and yet people still coming out saying those are wrong without prooving themselves, and not everyone here has the same arguments, so what are you even asking for? the one and unique argument that unites them all?

And just saying that his arguments have had zero substance for a long time is like saying he has some kind of mental illness or brainwash that doesn't let him see reality or something, are you going to go that path of dishonesty?

[Byleth]

And just saying that his arguments have had zero substance for a long time is like saying he has some kind of mental illness or brainwash that doesn't let him see reality or something, are you going to go that path of dishonesty?

For his arguments to have substance, he'd have to make some.

Specifically, he'd actually have to refute the points made in counter to his claims with supporting evidence. Just like others provided for him.

[Aldo Hawk]

For his arguments to have substance, he'd have to make some.

Specifically, he'd actually have to refute the points made in counter to his claims with supporting evidence. Just like others provided for him.

Yeah, he never said an argument but his arguments doesn't have substance...

And ok, let's see if he does that from now on, but don't try do make as if others did that in the past and he didn't, that's a lie.

[Byleth]

but don't try do make as if others did that in the past and he didn't, that's a lie.

I'm literally one of the people who made a solid argument against him and he "refuted" it by saying I was wrong and offering no evidence or counter context.

I am not a liar.

[Aldo Hawk]

I'm literally one of the people who made a solid argument against him and he "refuted" it by saying I was wrong and offering no evidence or counter context.

I am not a liar.

What i found in your latest posts is that post where you say he is not worth the effort for changing his words to make him look like a 'rabid Donald Trump fan'.

And then you say he 'don't reached the place where he can analyze and process exactly what Ion said'.

If that was not that post of yours that you were referring to, show me what post it was.