Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[FlubberPuddy]

Has everyone forgot about Alleria?

As it currently stands, she is the only void elf of her kind; to retain her original form but harness the power of the void.

All playable void elves are the result of almost dying to the void and being saved by Alleria.

It isn't inconceivable that Alleria would offer a safer alternative to those hoping to embrace the void and in turn retain more of their original elven form. Blizzard could still offer differences, such as "rips" in the skin where void shines through like tattoos or void options for eyes, etc.

No one's forgotten about Alleria, and you're absolutely right about how the first Void Elves that are playable came to be, it's just those opposing High Elves don't want to acknowledge why Void Elves have the skin tones they do currently vs Alleria.

Then even some believe that recruitment of more Void Elves are happening and not realizing the way to recreate the current Void Elves is through an interrupted process that almost took away their life. If more are being recruited now, then the process itself would have to be different from the get-go.

Why the fuck would Alleria subject them to the same one that almost took away their lives and caused agnoy? It doesn't add up but that's because the "anti-helf" peeps are using skewed logic in order to keep Alliance players from having access to High Elf customization/playable race. That's all it really boils down to.

- - - Updated - - -

What does it matter that he is no longer employed by Blizzard? When he said it, he WAS employed and in a senior development position.

So was Tom Chilton when he spoke of how the community reacted to Draenei introduction into the game and how going forward they'd seed in new races before dumping them onto players.

- Years Pass - Tom Chilton no longer in the position he was before, and Void Elves release out of nowhere just like how Draenei did before.

I'm SURE Blizzard thought long and hard about Chilton's words from back then when he was a higher up before making the Void Elf choice

[Ielenia]

Yep... totally about the lore.

Claims it's all about the lore, then in same breath says they'll settle for the aesthetic.... just...lol. You don't need to hide your hidden agenda anymore, it's quite clear it was always about the aesthetics.

Strippling, do yourself a big favor and stop responding. The more you respond, the more you publicly humiliate yourself.

Go get a book, or access the Wikipedia page or any other online dictionary like Collins Dictionary or Cambridge Dictionary and educate yourself in the meaning of the word compromise.

I just find it incredibly amusing how dishonest you are as you bolded two parts of the last paragraph in my post... yet completely fails (intentionally, in my opinion) to notice the nine words in between those bolded parts that completely destroy and pulverize your attempt at pulling a strawman.

Oh and like it or not, the compromise was void elfs.

No, it's not a compromise.

Compromises never fully satisfy one party.

Again, educate yourself in the meaning of the word 'compromise'. It's not about "fully satisfying", it's about reaching a middle ground, which void elves, as per their current iteration, absolutely fail to do.

You know how Void Elves would actually be a compromise? Imagine this scenario instead of what we got for void elf recruitment:

Alleria Windrunner: "Champion. I've received word from the Silver Covenant, and it's troubling news. In light of my dealings with the Void, some high elf magisters of the Kirin Tor decided to do their own research into the Void. They have relocated out of Dalaran to avoid putting the city in danger in case something went wrong. And, it seems, something happened: communication between Dalaran and the magisters ended abruptly a few weeks ago. Seeing how I have experience dealing with the void, Veressa asked me to investigate the matter. I would like you to accompany me."

[Aldo Hawk]

@Obelisk Kai

Just one simple thing, don't get too nervous with a 50 sentence answer.

What you are implying is that Blizzard is completely incapable of having well done neutral races, which is mind boggling when we are talking about a company who has literally unlimited resources if we take apart the time.

Your implication also gives away common sense in which someone can clearly see that a lore with factions having much more less diversity existed in the past and that didn't made them bad stories or bad characters or bad anything. This is an slaughter of the context in order to magnify an imagined damage of a playable character in world of warcraft. It's one race, in two factions, with more differences than an already available race playable in the two factions. You hate common sense.

And you also state that what Blizzard employees says is a truth set in stone, when you are just giving away their humanity, in which one can not help but to see a sense of unperfection of the source. Your "Word of God" is a complete bullshit the moment a "Word of God" statement comes from a human being. Their minds change, their decisions are not perfect, their words are not divine commandments. They just have another perspective than us, nothing strange or paranormal.

[Obelisk Kai]

From Ion, Ghostcrawler, and from a Dev/community manager waaay back in the day whose name I can't remember; @Obelisk Kai I'm sure knows said devs/community manager name.

Caydiem from the September 2005 blue post. When asked why High Elves weren't playable when Gnomes were, despite both having low populations, Caydiem responded that the comparison was incorrect as Gnomes are vastly greater in number than Alliance High Elves, yet still facing extinction. The conclusion drawn is that Alliance High Elves are past the point of recovery and the population issue has been cited on numerous occasions since as the lore rationale for why they aren't playable.

[Aldo Hawk]

Strippling, do yourself a big favor and stop responding. The more you respond, the more you publicly humiliate yourself.

Go get a book, or access the Wikipedia page or any other online dictionary like Collins Dictionary or Cambridge Dictionary and educate yourself in the meaning of the word compromise.

I just find it incredibly amusing how dishonest you are as you bolded two parts of the last paragraph in my post... yet completely fails (intentionally, in my opinion) to notice the nine words in between those bolded parts that completely destroy and pulverize your attempt at pulling a strawman.


No, it's not a compromise.


Again, educate yourself in the meaning of the word 'compromise'. It's not about "fully satisfying", it's about reaching a middle ground, which void elves, as per their current iteration, absolutely fail to do.

You know how Void Elves would actually be a compromise? Imagine this scenario instead of what we got for void elf recruitment:

Alleria Windrunner: "Champion. I've received word from the Silver Covenant, and it's troubling news. In light of my dealings with the Void, some high elf magisters of the Kirin Tor decided to do their own research into the Void. They have relocated out of Dalaran to avoid putting the city in danger in case something went wrong. And, it seems, something happened: communication between Dalaran and the magisters ended abruptly a few weeks ago. Seeing how I have experience dealing with the void, Veressa asked me to investigate the matter. I would like you to accompany me."

It's no use, he is going to take out of context little things constantly in order to maintain himself in the discussion, he just likes to participate and it's more fun when it's in the antagonistic side.

Just look at it, constantly shamelessly taking out of context things in front of everyone as if nothing wrong were happening and when called out, he will just come up with something that has been already discussed or simply point to other thing or shamelessly discredit your argument without any evidence.

Adding and adding without substance, like a cake made of air.

[Obelisk Kai]

@Obelisk Kai

Just one simple thing, don't get too nervous with a 50 sentence answer.

What you are implying is that Blizzard is completely incapable of having well done neutral races, which is mind boggling when we are talking about a company who has literally unlimited resources if we take apart the time.

Your implication also gives away common sense in which someone can clearly see that a lore with factions having much more less diversity existed in the past and that didn't made them bad stories or bad characters or bad anything. This is an slaughter of the context in order to magnify an imagined damage of a playable character in world of warcraft. It's one race, in two factions, with more differences than an already available race playable in the two factions. You hate common sense.

And you also state that what Blizzard employees says is a truth set in stone, when you are just giving away their humanity, in which one can not help but to see a sense of unperfection of the source. Your "Word of God" is a complete bullshit the moment a "Word of God" statement comes from a human being. Their minds change, their decisions are not perfect, their words are not divine commandments. They just have another perspective than us, nothing strange or paranormal.

First, welcome back from your recent ban.

Secondly, 'literally unlimited' is demonstrably incorrect as no company has literally unlimited resources. Blizzard often talked about how the art team was a bottleneck for the content they wished to add as everything needs a graphical representation in game, and player character races need by far the most development time. As has been proven recently when they revealed creating just the Kul Tiran models took as much time as all the other Allied races put together.

Thirdly, your third paragraph is badly garbled. 'Much more less diversity'?, normally I don't flag typos but I have to guess if you mean much more diversity or much less diversity, as more and less are mutually exclusive. I think you are attempting to argue that the factions, because they had less options in the past were thus less diverse and that the storylines didn't suffer as a result, so I have to assume you mean 'much less diversity'. I fail to see the point you are making though. Both factions had the same level of complexity as each other, and each faction was diverse with unique options.As the factions have grown, they have maintained the same level of diversity. That is my answer to what I believe you are implying. If that is not what you were implying, well, I tried my best to decipher it.

And after all this time, you still misunderstand what word of god is. Word of God is what WE know of what they have said, not what they are thinking now because that is unknowable and probably contradictory. It is all we have to go on.

Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp? Who cares if their decisions aren't perfect, or if they second guess themselves, or if there are raging debates behind the scenes. We cannot and will not know that. But the unknowable cannot inform discussion, especially as a counter-argument. So what they say is absolute until they say something different. And if they change their minds at some point in the future and say Alliance High Elves are possible, then THAT will become Word of God. But that day has not come yet.

[Aldo Hawk]

First, welcome back from your recent ban.

Hello there.

Secondly, 'literally unlimited' is demonstrably incorrect as no company has literally unlimited resources. Blizzard often talked about how the art team was a bottleneck for the content they wished to add as everything needs a graphical representation in game, and player character races need by far the most development time. As has been proven recently when they revealed creating just the Kul Tiran models took as much time as all the other Allied races put together.

"Well done neutral races" is not comparable with the developing of an expansion from the ground up.

Thirdly, your third paragraph is badly garbled. 'Much more less diversity'?, normally I don't normally flag typos but I have to guess if you mean much more diversity or much less diversity, as more and less are mutually exclusive. I think you are attempting to argue that the factions, because they had less options in the past were thus less diverse and that the storylines didn't suffer as a result, so I have to assume you mean 'much less diversity'. I fail to see the point you are making though. Both factions had the same level of complexity as each other, and each faction was diverse with unique options.As the factions have grown, they have maintained the same level of diversity. That is my answer to what I believe you are implying. If that is not what you were implying, well, I tried my best to decipher it.

You just don't want to take it and try to mislead a bit more. It's easy to understand. There are more lore of other franchises with less diversity than in warcraft and it didn't made them bad lore. What's important in any faction based lore are the factions, not the races per se.

And after all this time, you still misunderstand what word of god is. Word of God is what WE know of what they have said, not what they are thinking now because that is unknowable and probably contradictory. It is all we have to go on.

Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp? Who cares if their decisions aren't perfect, or if they second guess themselves, or if there are raging debates behind the scenes. We cannot and will not know that. But the unknowable cannot inform discussion, especially as a counter-argument. So what they say is absolute until they say something different. And if they change their minds at some point in the future and say Alliance High Elves are possible, then THAT will become Word of God. But that day has not come yet.

Nah, you made it clear, they say something and it becomes an immovable fact. Which is not true.

[Varodoc]

Do you Quel'dorei fans just want to look like a fair-haired and blue-eyed elf, or do you actually seek to play as an actual member of a Quel'dorei faction, with appropriate abilities, armor, and mount? Because if it's the former, Blizzard can just give light skin customizations to the Ren'dorei, No?

[Aldo Hawk]

Do you Quel'dorei fans just want to look like a fair-haired and blue-eyed elf, or do you actually seek to play as an actual member of a Quel'dorei faction, with appropriate abilities, armor, and mounr? Because if it's the former, Blizzard can just give light skin customizations to the Ren'dorei, No?

Some are open to this because that would be an actual compromise and the discussion about high elves got too heated and too long.

I completely dislike the idea because it would just deviate from what a ren'dorei is and it would end up as a watered down quel'dorei, so i don't think it would be acceptable.

[Ielenia]

Except we aren't part of the negotiating. They don't have to discuss with us, they don't have to trade on our whims. They made a concession; or compromise, and Void Elves were it.

It's not a compromise. It could be called a compromise if void elves were high elves. Yet they're not. They're blood elves. In the void elf recruitment scenario, you head into blood elf lands to find blood elves who were banished from Silvermoon due to their research into the void.

If we were rescuing high elves from the Silver Covenant or from the Kirin Tor, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

And yet we'd still have people claiming they need/want/demand that Void Elves look just like High Elves/Blood Elves.

It's almost as if humankind is not a hive-mind, no matter how much certain people like to claim so. Imagine that...

[Darththeo]

You are aware that the reason I ONLY have Pandaren as an example of the failure of a neutral race is that Blizzard accepted the idea was a failure and didn't add more? If they had added more, and thus provided more examples, it would be because they didn't think the concept was a failure and I wouldn't have been able to make this case to begin with.

Pandaren was a failure of implementation ... not of the idea of neutral races. The fact you cannot separate your opinion from what is said is sad.

They feel they wrote themselves into a corner with Pandaren because there isn't really much you can do with them because of how they chose to tell that story. It is clear they can make distinctions now because Void Elves are still Blood Elves who are still High Elves ... we treat them as different races, but it is pretty certain they are all just a single race (Lor'themar respects High Elves, but loathes Void Elves; many high elves distrust Blood elves and that distrust could go to Void Elves, but Void Elves still see themselves as part of the same race as the two former. In Lore, a Void Elf don't see themselves as "different" the other children of Quel'thalas).

The rest is either a red herring on your part (a distraction from the actual discussion) or just you repeating your opinion on the facts as if it was a fact.

[Ielenia]

Again, it is, it's just not one you or the HE crowd agrees with.

It's not a compromise if it's not accepted by both parties. A compromise is, by definition, a middle ground. Void elves are not a middle ground.

Sooo as @Strippling has been saying it's not "just about the lore" as you've been parroting, it's also the choice of color palette. If it was purely about the lore then nothing would change if VE customization was added to reflect the looks of HEs, as that's not what people are upset about.

Go educate yourself on the the definition of the word "compromise". I offered a couple links a few posts back that may be useful to you.

No one's made that claim

Not with those exact words. But the pro-high-elf community surely is treated as if they're one hive mind, from what I've seen around here, which you perfectly illustrate in that same paragraph:

however the point is that the HE crowd is after the HE/BE model and color palette, moreso than the "lore" reasons as you would have us believe.

Which is so horrendously and blatantly false. Funny here, you claim "no one is making the claim that they're a hive mind", but here you are, treating the high-elf community as "hive-mind" because there are those who accept the idea that they'll never get the lore of the high elves and are willing to COMPROMISE with just a skin option.

[FlubberPuddy]

Do you Quel'dorei fans just want to look like a fair-haired and blue-eyed elf, or do you actually seek to play as an actual member of a Quel'dorei faction, with appropriate abilities, armor, and mount? Because if it's the former, Blizzard can just give light skin customizations to the Ren'dorei, No?

Is it truly hard to grasp that "Quel'dorei fans" are a diverse group and not one hive mind of some sort? This isn't snark, I'm asking genuinely of you.

Just like how there are fans of WoW in general that would like for it to go back to Classic, or wish that flying was immediately available by gold purchase and not pathfinder unlocks, there are also those that love current WoW and enjoy pathfinder unlocks.

Same thing here, some "Quel'dorei fans" are the former and some are the latter. There could even be some "Quel'dorei fans" who may have originally wanted High Elves for a long time, but with the release of Void Elves are perfectly content with em.

There isn't one group of fans, people should stop treating it like so.

I would say for the purposes of this thread, it was designed with the intent of gaining High Elves as a playable Alliance Allied Race with racial abilities, armor, mount.

The talk about High Elf customization added to Void Elves is because Afrasiabi at Blizzcon 2018 said in an interview that High Elf fantasy could potentially be realized through extra added Void Elf customization.

Thus now, some people think, "okay, if they unambiguously are NEVER going to let us play High Elves then I can settle for some High Elf skins on Void Elves."

And thus another sub-group of people are born within the larger "Quel'dorei fans" group. And with every pro-group there's typically an against-group so some people don't like the High Elf customization on Void Elves idea.

I'm speaking in general here: If this post about "Quel'dorei fan" subgroups is hard to understand for anyone then think about it like this -

- Tons of people love the Allied Races feature
- Within the group that loves AR feature, people argue over which race should become an AR.

That's literally it. If you (general you) can understand the two above points, you should be able to understand why any one group isn't a hive-mind and that people are individuals with their own opinions and desires.

[Varodoc]

Is it truly hard to grasp that "Quel'dorei fans" are a diverse group and not one hive mind of some sort? This isn't snark, I'm asking genuinely of you.

Back at you, Is it truly hard to grasp that the Sin'dorei are Quel'dorei? Your arrogant attitude, that's why your minority will always be the laughing stock of the forums.

[Aldo Hawk]

Pandaren was a failure of implementation ... not of the idea of neutral races. The fact you cannot separate your opinion from what is said is sad.

They feel they wrote themselves into a corner with Pandaren because there isn't really much you can do with them because of how they chose to tell that story. It is clear they can make distinctions now because Void Elves are still Blood Elves who are still High Elves ... we treat them as different races, but it is pretty certain they are all just a single race (Lor'themar respects High Elves, but loathes Blood Elves; many high elves distrust Blood elves and that distrust could go to Void Elves, but Void Elves still see themselves as part of the same race as the two former. In Lore, a Void Elf don't see themselves as "different" the other children of Quel'thalas).

The rest is either a red herring on your part (a distraction from the actual discussion) or just you repeating your opinion on the facts as if it was a fact.

That idea also darkens when the period from pandaria to BfA is taken into consideration.

We got a race and a class in MoP, then in WoD we got a visual rework for the playable races, in Legion we got a new class and in BfA we got this new playable character system which we don't truly know it's limits or requirements.

So, from Mop to BfA we got two expansions without new races, and that was not the case before MoP, and now in BfA we got a new system for playable races.

What's the future? nobody knows, but what is certain is that suggesting that you can know what's gonna happen by a pair of comments from certain people time ago is dumb.

[FlubberPuddy]

Back at you, Is it truly hard to grasp that the Sin'dorei are Quel'dorei? Your arrogant attitude, that's why your minority will always be the laughing stock of the forums.

You quote me, where I said it's not snark and I made a post explaining in detail what I mean and you shoot right back with a snarky post. If you're here to take jabs then that's pretty fail.

If Sin'dorei are Quel'dorei then Ren'dorei are Sin'dorei are Quel'dorei and thus we shouldn't even have Void Elves. That's how stupid the logic is.

[Aldo Hawk]

Go educate yourself on the the definition of the word "compromise". I offered a couple links a few posts back that may be useful to you.

It's no use, as soon as he claims that we are just plainly lying while ignoring what had has been discussed over time you can just grasp two things.

He is an argumentative warrior who just enjoys to be antagonistic and his ego needs to be feed on.

And you can't come to any ground with him as soon as the context is constantly being broken or put apart.

Just don't bother yourself.

- - - Updated - - -

Back at you, Is it truly hard to grasp that the Sin'dorei are Quel'dorei? Your arrogant attitude, that's why your minority will always be the laughing stock of the forums.

This is why you came in here? to be another antagonistic douche?

[Varodoc]

This is why you came in here? to be another antagonistic douche?

> Says that they aren't antagonistic
> Calls me a douche

Typical Quel'dorei fanboys, it's best to abandon logic with you. By the way, I see that your main is a Sin'dorei, good, you have accepted the truth that they are the same.

[Aldo Hawk]

> Says that they aren't antagonistic
> Calls me a douche

Typical Quel'dorei fanboys, it's best to abandon logic with you. By the way, I see that your main is a Sin'dorei, good, you have accepted the truth that they are the same.

What i said, you are here just to be antagonistic xd


And yes, my main is a sin'dorei, i love it and i would not want it to be a quel'dorei, and if quel'dorei were playable you would hardly see me playing one, i'm still deciding what alliance character to make to get alliance things since the new pair of mounts (alliance wolf and horde horse) because i don't like to play anything but horde but i can't get things only available on alliance.

And yes, you behaved like a douche, you didn't lasted more than two posts until starting drama for a personal minor issue.

[Varodoc]

What i said, you are here just to be antagonistic xd


And yes, my main is a sin'dorei, i love it and i would not want it to be a quel'dorei, and if quel'dorei were playable you would hardly see me playing one, i'm still deciding what alliance character to make to get alliance things since the new pair of mounts (alliance wolf and horde horse) because i don't like to play anything but horde but i can't get things only available on alliance.

And yes, you behaved like a douche, you didn't lasted more than two posts until starting drama for a personal minor issue.

I didn't start any drama, if anything it is me who was attacked by an extremely disrespectful dude who had to berate me because apparently I sinned when I dared to lump all the fans of this race into a single category. Becuase you people are special, so we cannot lump all of you into a single subgroup, no, we have to differentiate for you people.