Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[FlubberPuddy]

This is ironic considering 50% of the comments in this megathread is obkai nitpicking at a perfectly valid AR.
There's a problem when you spend excessive amounts of time in a massive thread than the actual fans of a race that you dislike, a race that isn't even playable yet... (aka insanity)

Most his posts tend to end in some themed variation of "I know you are but what am I" when the counter arguments he tries gets proven inaccurate.

Some people can't admit when they're wrong.

[Aldo Hawk]

the ironforge dwarves do not have those skins, and this is prior their edit(who was totally supported by lore and not fanfic) anyway

Damn, excuse me, i hate to prepare bad dishes for my guests, here's a fresher one before the allied race.

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=109289/d...hots:id=555140

[Syegfryed]

This is ironic considering 50% of the comments in this megathread is obkai nitpicking at a perfectly valid AR.

a valid AR? you mean the elves who blizzard already said are the same with no difference at all except the eye glow, who by now should be a option for the normal elves too?

There's a problem when you spend excessive amounts of time in a massive thread than the actual fans of a race that you dislike, a race that isn't even playable yet... (aka insanity)

also, the same problem of people crying for blizzard for ten years for the copy paste of a race in the other faction even receiving a lots of "no"

if we are going to talk about problems, then we should talk about the whole thing

Damn, excuse me, i hate to prepare bad dishes for my guests, here's a fresher one before the allied race.

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=109289/d...hots:id=555140

note the fire eyes.

[Aldo Hawk]

note the fire eyes.

Red eyes without even a simple glow?

Seriously, stop grasping at straws, you are going nowhere.

[Syegfryed]

Red eyes without even a simple glow?

yeah? like, the lack of glow is due to the shit graphycs

Seriously, stop grasping at straws, you are going nowhere.

as a HE supporter, the grasping at straws is your thing, not mine.

[Obelisk Kai]

The funny part is that people did reply to dark iron requests by saying there was already a grey-skinned red-eyed dwarf skin available for players.

So the best retort is a slightly gray skinned Dwarf with red pupils?

This is what a Dark Iron Dwarf looked like in 2007 https://www.wowhead.com/npc=23872/co...shots:id=97026

Nothing at all like that customization combination. Much darker skin and flaming red eyes, not reddish pupils. Anyone who suggested that was a substitute for a Dark Iron was wrong, as is anyone who thinks that this means Bronzebeard Dwarves have access to some sort of Dark Iron customization. They don't.

All that just to try to dismiss the very obvious truth: that a race status prior to become playable is no constraint as to how they'll appear once playable.

Which of course is based on your arrogant conceit that they are not already playable, and it is arrogant because you have been repeatedly told they are playable and you have decided to disregard that. And the fact that the race is playable is a pretty massive constraint, in that you and others have comprehensively failed to justify how they could be different whilst still remaining High Elves. When Blizzard faced this issue they turned them blue and added some tentacles.

The point is that NPC high elf skins are not the extent of customization that playable high elves can have. NPC skins are just a cheap shortcut to display high elves, as there's no need to make a whole lot of differentiation until they are made playable.

You don't really have a point here. Alliance High Elves are not in some kind of limbo awaiting their turn for a unique model. They have the model they do because they and Blood Elves are the same people.

And high elves are not blood elves. The game does not say that. The characters in-game do not say that. Not even Ion said that, he said "pretty much", which means close, but not the same thing. And, as long as there's a difference, it can be widened with little effort. Blizzard controls the narrative, it only needs to snap its fingers and new developments start to happen.

Blood Elves are High Elves. Chris Metzen said that and Ion Hazzikostas said that. Metzen clarified that Blood Elves are Warcraft's spin on High Elves, which is where Ion's 'pretty much' comes in. Ion also went on for up to two minutes after that explaining why Alliance High Elves weren't going to be a thing, in that they are too close to an already playable Horde race.

As for Blizzard controlling the narrative, well yes. I have said for the longest time this the true strategy of the pro High Elf movement. That if you complain long enough and loudly enough, Blizzard will give in. This is the point where debate ends because of course they can. What you always fail to appreciate is that they clearly don't want to do what you suggest, because they value the division between the factions more than you do.

[Aldo Hawk]

yeah? like, the lack of glow is due to the shit graphycs

So WoD texture redesign is "shit graphycs", tell me moar b0i, tell me soft and slowly into my ear.

as a HE supporter, the grasping at straws is your thing, not mine.

Nice ad hominem, truly telling

Allied races gets changes when added, all of them. That's the premise of it and you can't change that fact.

[FlubberPuddy]

As for Blizzard controlling the narrative, well yes. I have said for the longest time this the true strategy of the pro High Elf movement. That if you complain long enough and loudly enough, Blizzard will give in. This is the point where debate ends because of course they can. What you always fail to appreciate is that they clearly don't want to do what you suggest, because they value the division between the factions more than you do.

If Void Elves didn't destroy the faction divide, then neither will High Elves. As Ion also stated, Void Elves were to give "something like a Blood Elf" to the Alliance. Therefore this narrative of, "they aren't going to add High Elves because it'll destroy the faction divide" is pretty much pulled out of Saturn.

I can play a Blood Elf on the Alliance now as much as I wish, the same Blood Elves that carry the same lore of TBC Blood Elves as well. I don't see you hammering on about that "arrogance" and how Alliance Blood Elves are destroying faction divide that Blizzard appreciates so much.

I truly must wonder why that is.

[DeicideUH]

So the best retort is a slightly gray skinned Dwarf with red pupils?

This is what a Dark Iron Dwarf looked like in 2007 https://www.wowhead.com/npc=23872/co...shots:id=97026

Nothing at all like that customization combination. Much darker skin and flaming red eyes, not reddish pupils. Anyone who suggested that was a substitute for a Dark Iron was wrong, as is anyone who thinks that this means Bronzebeard Dwarves have access to some sort of Dark Iron customization. They don't.

Missed the point much, uh?
No, they are nothing alike, but people said they were just like you are saying that high elves are blood elves.
High elves are represented in-game by unique skins not available to players, just like dark irons were. If they were the same thing, there would be no need for unique skins. But you are acting just like people comparing that dwarf skin with a dark iron, when they are clearly not the same.

Which of course is based on your arrogant conceit that they are not already playable, and it is arrogant because you have been repeatedly told they are playable and you have decided to disregard that. And the fact that the race is playable is a pretty massive constraint, in that you and others have comprehensively failed to justify how they could be different whilst still remaining High Elves. When Blizzard faced this issue they turned them blue and added some tentacles.

If they were the same, there wouldn't be 4 unique high elf skins to differentiate them.
They are not the same thing. You can tell a non-faction aligned blood elf, like Valeera, from a non-aligned high elf, like Inanis. And that's because they are not solely defined by faction, and they are not the same thing.

You don't really have a point here. Alliance High Elves are not in some kind of limbo awaiting their turn for a unique model. They have the model they do because they and Blood Elves are the same people.

Both blood elves and high elves reckognize themselves as different. Or else they'd not call themselves and each other by different names. They may be kin, but they are not the same.

Blood Elves are High Elves. Chris Metzen said that and Ion Hazzikostas said that. Metzen clarified that Blood Elves are Warcraft's spin on High Elves, which is where Ion's 'pretty much' comes in. Ion also went on for up to two minutes after that explaining why Alliance High Elves weren't going to be a thing, in that they are too close to an already playable Horde race.

And yet there's still high elf characters with unique skins in the Alliance, doing Alliance stuff, and refusing to be called blood elves.
Blood elves rose as the bigger group of thalassian elves after the high elf downfall, but high elves still exist, so blood elves may be a spin of high elf, but the original high elves are still there.

As for Blizzard controlling the narrative, well yes. I have said for the longest time this the true strategy of the pro High Elf movement. That if you complain long enough and loudly enough, Blizzard will give in. This is the point where debate ends because of course they can. What you always fail to appreciate is that they clearly don't want to do what you suggest, because they value the division between the factions more than you do.

And yet they've acknowledge us several times since Blizzcon 2017. We will not be silent anymore.

[Syegfryed]

So WoD texture redesign is "shit graphycs", tell me moar b0i, tell me soft and slowly into my ear.

there is no need to say more

Nice ad hominem, truly telling

again, you are the one who start.

Allied races gets changes when added, all of them.

supported by lore, and not by fanfiction, those are the facts.

[Alixie]

Yet Alliance High Elves DO have a player character quality model already. Because it is the Blood Elf model, and as I have been trying to hammer home in response to demonstrate just how feeble a foundation your retort was based on, they are the same race.

Threadly reminder that this argument falls apart when Kul Tirans are brought up.

Kul Tirans are the same race as Humans, and are playable.

Edit: It actually blows apart their two biggest arguments. Kul Tirans (and Guilneans) prove that we can have multiple playable versions of the same race, Humans. And a race, like Humans, can have different models and still be the same race; fat, tall, muscular, normal, and skinny.

[Ielenia]

Which of course is based on your arrogant conceit that they are not already playable, and it is arrogant because you have been repeatedly told they are playable and you have decided to disregard that.

It's not "arrogant", because they're really not playable. Blood elves are not high elves in terms of what it's being asked for. That's like saying non-worgen gilnean humans are playable... which they aren't.

Blood elves were once called 'high elves', but no longer. There is a serious divide between the two, now. Not all high elves are blood elves, and people wanting high elves want those who did not follow Kael'thas' commands nor accepted the idea of draining magic from living beings. They want the thalassian elves who did not join the Horde, and opted to stay with the Alliance.

[DeicideUH]

Heh, this thread made me go back to Pandaria and queue for the Blood in the Snow scenario, where the dark irons really "join" the Alliance. Obviously, they are just the standard dwarf model with the old skins there, they weren't updated with the new models. The difference is obvious, despite the concept (red eyes, dark skin) being the same. Those fiery beards and tattoos really were a huge deal.

High elves can be made different from blood elves, yet keep their core traits. A half-decent artist can make it happen. It's just a matter of willingness.

[Alixie]

It's not "arrogant", because they're really not playable. Blood elves are not high elves in terms of what it's being asked for. That's like saying non-worgen gilnean humans are playable... which they aren't.

Blood elves were once called 'high elves', but no longer. There is a serious divide between the two, now. Not all high elves are blood elves, and people wanting high elves want those who did not follow Kael'thas' commands nor accepted the idea of draining magic from living beings. They want the thalassian elves who did not join the Horde, and opted to stay with the Alliance.

This is where the thread loops back 500 pages because a few dedicated protestors refuse to acknowledge that the High Elf clans have different cultures than the Blood Elves. Even though that's the reason why their race splintered into different fractions back in the Burning Crusade, in the first place.

Edit: It also loops 500 pages when the counter "argument" resorts to "Ion said no".

[Aldo Hawk]

Which of course is based on your arrogant conceit that they are not already playable, and it is arrogant because you have been repeatedly told they are playable and you have decided to disregard that. And the fact that the race is playable is a pretty massive constraint, in that you and others have comprehensively failed to justify how they could be different whilst still remaining High Elves. When Blizzard faced this issue they turned them blue and added some tentacles.

Ironically the true arrogant behavior in here is telling again and again that High elves are already playable, when it is just a twist of reality.

Face it, Void elves got released and -then- High elf requests intensified, alliance players already have a high elf to play isn't it? and if not they have Blood elves.
Then, what are they asking for?

The answer is obvious but you refuse to take it because you don't like it, there's no other explanation to that, the HE request intensified simply because they are -not- playable and alliance players got something that is everything but a high elf.

Denying this simple fact denotes a serious problem of... not understanding, because you are completely able to understand it. But a total lack of honesty in regards to the matter.

Blood elves are the ones that are playable, even in the alliance in the form of Void elves.

High elves? that's the thing being asked for and you perfectly know that, face it and stop hiding behind meaningless phrasing. It's ridiculous, embarrassing, and alarming.

I saw it, i saw you repeatedly editing posts where you suggest people to leave, myself included, and you edit those because you perfectly know how vulnerable you seem on them. You can deny it, obviously, and you certainly will, nobody likes to be pointed out. But you can't lie to yourself.

We also saw how you try to discourage the discussion when someone new appears with something that menace the view you tried to impose, and how you react when someone do not believe your tricks and call you out.

If you want to oppose HE at least try to not fall into cheap tricks, dishonesty and passive-aggressive crap, it's so obvious at this point i can't believe you can have a straight face when writing certain things.

If you want to keep the stance that High elves are already playable, keep on it, there is honest people ready to slap that back into reality.

If Void Elves didn't destroy the faction divide, then neither will High Elves. As Ion also stated, Void Elves were to give "something like a Blood Elf" to the Alliance. Therefore this narrative of, "they aren't going to add High Elves because it'll destroy the faction divide" is pretty much pulled out of Saturn.

I can play a Blood Elf on the Alliance now as much as I wish, the same Blood Elves that carry the same lore of TBC Blood Elves as well. I don't see you hammering on about that "arrogance" and how Alliance Blood Elves are destroying faction divide that Blizzard appreciates so much.

I truly must wonder why that is.

That's the funniest thing of all. Blood elves are playable on both factions, but High elves, the requested group all along, aren't, and there's people still not getting or acknowledging it...

We are also still waiting for a confirmation that tells Void elves are a replacement of High elves. There's nothing, absolutely -nothing- telling that.

They even made the Void elves former Blood elves, it's a joke...

[FlubberPuddy]

That's the funniest thing of all. Blood elves are playable on both factions, but High elves, the requested group all along, aren't, and there's people still not getting or acknowledging it...

We are also still waiting for a confirmation that tells Void elves are a replacement of High elves. There's nothing, absolutely -nothing- telling that.

They even made the Void elves former Blood elves, it's a joke...

It is honestly super silly at this point. Look at his point below in regards to the "pretty much" said by Ion. He takes it as equal as saying "Blood Elves are High Elves".

Blood Elves are High Elves. Chris Metzen said that and Ion Hazzikostas said that. Metzen clarified that Blood Elves are Warcraft's spin on High Elves, which is where Ion's 'pretty much' comes in. Ion also went on for up to two minutes after that explaining why Alliance High Elves weren't going to be a thing, in that they are too close to an already playable Horde race.

But then if this is the case, then we can also take Ion's "Void Elves were to give 'something like a Blood Elf' to the Alliance" to then mean that Blizzard did in fact give the Alliance faction Blood Elves.

Which should be having Obelisk Kai up in arms over his precious "must uphold faction diversity" argument. How then do Blood Elves on Alliance maintain "faction diversity" but High Elves on Alliance wouldn't?

If he's not out there fighting tooth and nail against the implementation of Alliance Blood Elves then we can truly see if High Elves were added to the Alliance he would then not have anything to say about it. He actually alludes to this here:

As for Blizzard controlling the narrative, well yes. I have said for the longest time this the true strategy of the pro High Elf movement. That if you complain long enough and loudly enough, Blizzard will give in. This is the point where debate ends because of course they can. What you always fail to appreciate is that they clearly don't want to do what you suggest, because they value the division between the factions more than you do.

So all this fluster is made to prevent the addition, but as we know it makes one of his other arguments false. That somehow adding High Elves would destroy faction integrity.

If Blizzard finally decided to add High Elves, Obelisk would promptly quiet himself rather than these dishonest spiels he keeps outputting.

And honestly? The developer responses post Ion's Q/A have been hopeful in regards to High Elf playability on Alliance.

Before anyone wisecracks "why aren't they playable now then", come back to me when you apply that answer to Ogres, Forest Trolls, Wildhammer Dwarves, Jinyu, etc or any other unplayable race.

Adding Allied Races isn't Thanos -snap- infinity gauntlet type crap where they can be added just on a whim. Being hopeful for High Elves doesn't make someone out of touch with the realities of what a business is and the context of other additions that have made it into the game.

[Strippling]

So all this fluster is made to prevent the addition, but as we know it makes one of his other arguments false. That somehow adding High Elves would destroy faction integrity.

Blizzard themselves said high elfs would blur faction lines. Or are you going to put your fingers in your ears and pretend they never said that? Sorry bud, but your argument falls flat on your face.

[Benomatic]

Finally having complete factions after all this time surely should be a priority for the senior staff at Blizzard. It's 24 years in the making now.

Horde finally having Ogres and the Alliance finally having High Elves would bound to reintroduce or reinforce faction pride and identity.

We will finally have what we need and what we want.

Already having both races in their respective factions but not making them playable is counter productive, unless the holding back of them being implemented is for a grandiose gesture.

At this point those, the desire to have these races isn't fan service, but to finally complete the two factions initial line up of alliances.

[La]

It's funny just viewing this thread for the last 200 pages has been the same 2 or 3 people going against albeit a few of the same names but a lot of new names only for them to be chased off by the foaming at the mouth 3 people who are purely against more thing for the Alliance faction.

Keep up the good work guys you keep these lovely people occupied.

There's not much point in arguing with people who only concern themselves with trying to be right, unfortunately. That's why it's better to have a discussion and ignore those people and their responses, but at least people attempt to enlighten them.

[Obelisk Kai]

Missed the point much, uh?
No, they are nothing alike, but people said they were just like you are saying that high elves are blood elves.
High elves are represented in-game by unique skins not available to players, just like dark irons were. If they were the same thing, there would be no need for unique skins. But you are acting just like people comparing that dwarf skin with a dark iron, when they are clearly not the same.

In regards to the unique skins not available to players on High Elf models, those skins are 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16.

Skin 12 appears to be the same shade as skin 3.
Skin 13 appears to be the same shade as skin 7.
Skin 14 appears to be the same shade as skin 3.
Skin 15 appears to be the same shade as skin 2.
And Skin 16 appears to be the same shade as skin 9.

In fact the greatest bother I had is that skins 12 and 14 look incredibly similar to each other and to skin 3.

What is the only difference between these skins and already available Blood Elf skins? The blue eyes, which Blood Elf players such as myself hope will be made available as an option for us once customization is extended for all races (and Ion did heavily hint that separate eye colour would be among the first such customization options offered when it arrives).

That is the sole reason these skins exist. Alliance High Elves do not have access to a unique set of palette options.

If they were the same, there wouldn't be 4 unique high elf skins to differentiate them.
They are not the same thing. You can tell a non-faction aligned blood elf, like Valeera, from a non-aligned high elf, like Inanis. And that's because they are not solely defined by faction, and they are not the same thing.

They are the same thing in terms of biology, culture and aesthetics. Chris Metzen and Ion Hazzikostas have both said Blood Elves are High Elves, Chris when saying how Blood Elves are Warcraft's take on High Elves in much the same way Night Elves are their take on Dark Elves, and Ion in response to a question regarding why High Elves weren't playable (his answer being that they were). As for the 'four unique skins', that is covered above. Now, I would wager you may attempt to argue that the skins above are actually subtly different or look different in game, but I would ask you to recall how in the 7.3.2 PTR you thought Void Elf skin 3 had been significantly lightened and rushed to these forums and the official forums proclaiming that Blizzard was listening to your feedback to 'improve Void Elves'. And then it was pointed out to you it was the lighting in that room that Void Elf npc was standing in. You have form in misinterpreting skin tone.

You are also representative of the group that is clearly pursuing a pure High Elf aesthetic within the Alliance, rather than the lore, as your posting from that time showed you would have been happy with a High Elf skin on a Void Elf, which of course would have still been a Void Elf. It is ironic you would be happy with a High Elf skin on a Void Elf, but refuse to take the option of playing a High Elf in a Void Elf skin which has been opened since it was confirmed Void Elves can recruit other Elves.

Both blood elves and high elves reckognize themselves as different. Or else they'd not call themselves and each other by different names. They may be kin, but they are not the same.

They recognise their currently divergent paths, but their paths diverged in the very recent past and has had no time to produce any meaningful difference aside from an eye colour change. And Elisande recognised where the Alliance High Elf path leads, complete assimilation into Human society. When an Alliance High Elf deviates, it is not a cultural innovation as Traycor pretends would happen. It is recognition of 'Human Potential'.

Behold the future of the few Alliance High Elves who remain.

https://ibb.co/12mgNzR

And yet there's still high elf characters with unique skins in the Alliance, doing Alliance stuff, and refusing to be called blood elves.
Blood elves rose as the bigger group of thalassian elves after the high elf downfall, but high elves still exist, so blood elves may be a spin of high elf, but the original high elves are still there.

As shown, the unique skin boils down to eye colour which is the subject of an ongoing request we may see movement on shortly.
Blood Elves are the original High Elves, they are the evolution and redefinition of what a High Elf is, Warcraft's spin on the High Elf trope.
If you attempt to cite Alleria, Alleria is no longer a High Elf. She is a Void Elf and has declared herself to be a Void Elf. Even then, all that she has which is unique are tattoos which, given they were available in Warcraft 2, are part of the heritage of the High Elves and which should therefore be available to Blood Elves. Another customization request for the future for Blood Elves.

And yet they've acknowledge us several times since Blizzcon 2017. We will not be silent anymore.

Please get a sense of perspective. We will not be silent anymore? You are hardly the Uighurs, the Falun Gong or the Rohingya. As for being acknowledged several times since Blizzcon 2017, I count two occasions and both of them were no.

- - - Updated - - -

There's not much point in arguing with people who only concern themselves with trying to be right, unfortunately. That's why it's better to have a discussion and ignore those people and their responses, but at least people attempt to enlighten them.

The High Elf discord echo chamber link can be found on wowhead. If that's the sort of 'discussion' you seek, shorn of all dissent. Although I imagine a discussion where you all agree with each other would probably get dull pretty quick.

- - - Updated - - -

It's funny just viewing this thread for the last 200 pages has been the same 2 or 3 people going against albeit a few of the same names but a lot of new names only for them to be chased off by the foaming at the mouth 3 people who are purely against more thing for the Alliance faction.

Keep up the good work guys you keep these lovely people occupied.

Kaira I believe we have been over this, not opposed to new things for the Alliance as long as it isn't something that is currently a part of the Horde.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not "arrogant", because they're really not playable. Blood elves are not high elves in terms of what it's being asked for. That's like saying non-worgen gilnean humans are playable... which they aren't.

Blood elves were once called 'high elves', but no longer. There is a serious divide between the two, now. Not all high elves are blood elves, and people wanting high elves want those who did not follow Kael'thas' commands nor accepted the idea of draining magic from living beings. They want the thalassian elves who did not join the Horde, and opted to stay with the Alliance.

It is arrogant. Multiple occasions the developers have said that Blood Elves are High Elves. It is therefore arrogant to presume that the pro High Elf community has a superior understanding to the people who created the universe. And note, this includes Chris Metzen.

That Alliance High Elves exist is true, but they are too small in number (lore reason) and essentially identical to Blood Elves (gameplay reason) to become playable.
If the desire for the thalassian elves who never joined the Horde, then you can play your Void Elf as a High Elf who has joined up with Alleria and embraced the void, as the High Elven Wayfarers inside Telogrus are clearly preparing to and as Moorgard clearly said was possible.


"Here’s just one question: If they come from a small group of Silvermoon Exiles, how are they an Allied Race? Where do the numbers come from?


“They start out as a small group,” Danuser continues. “But it’s natural as other elves have found out about them — elves who are interested in new sources of magic, power, or opportunities — would see if they could undergo a similar process. They’re not ... recruiting, necessarily, but they’re open to those who show a similar interest.”

This particular point has been the subject of ferocious denial by the pro High Elf community. The interviewer is asking Moorgard where are Void Elf numbers coming from, and Moorgard says They start out as a small group. It is ridiculous in my opinion that we have to parse his words so closely to establish intent when the intent is explicit, but the denial is strong here. The use of the verb 'start' implies the beginning of something, in this case their group. Their group started at a small size, these are the few Elves who accompanied Umbric at the initial transformation event. As 'start' implies the beginning of a process, it stands to reason that the process is still continuing.

He talks about the Elves who found out about them, who are want to undergo a similar process. 'Undergo a similar process', not learn about the Void, or master the void, 'Undergo a similar process'. When we talk about the process that initial batch of Void Elves underwent do we mean their learning about the void? Of course we don't, we mean them getting zapped and growing tentacles. Just as here it means other Elves volunteering to get zapped and become Void Elves.

People want to pretend Void Elves cannot expand their numbers because they would mourn the loss of the retort against the still valid Alliance High Elf population issue and because it means Void Elves are going to be a fairly permanent feature now. A feature intended to replace Alliance High Elves as the thalassian elves of the Alliance.

But that is immaterial, the facts are pretty clear. And if you want to play as an Elf who never betrayed the Alliance, you can.