Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Aldo Hawk]

That just means you don't want High Elves, you want Void Elves with fair skin.

This is so true...

A Void elf with High elf skins would be a High elf without voicelines, HE class options, racial mount, heritage armor, etc...

Not desirable in the slightest.

[Neverafter]

That just means you don't want High Elves, you want Void Elves with fair skin.

Blood Elves are High Elves. Void Elves are Blood Elves.

Void Elves are High Elves.

So, yea, I do want fair skin options for the Alliance version of High Elves.

[Traycor]

No direct hints, but I've been trying to piece together the direction of both void elf and BfA storyline and ended up with a possible scenario that I found particularly worrying.

I started with the following premises:
- The lack of void elf development is intentional
- The little we have of void elf lore right now hints at a story direction
- Void elves were introduced for a purpose in BfA's story
- Void elves were made out of blood elves for a reason
- Blizzard don't talk about high elves not because they don't have plans, but because they won't spoil the story

Ok, then I elaborated each premise with a possible outcome:
- Void elves lack development because Blizzard does not want us to get too attached to Umbric and his group.
- Alliance seeing Umbric being all polite and helpful while knowing next to nothing about void elves, while the Horde only sees void elves going crazy about feeding souls to the void or summoning void creatures is intentional: they are hiding their true nature to the Alliance.
- Since the void elves' purpose has not been disclosed so far, they must be important in the ending of BfA.
- Void elves were made out of blood elves because there would be no reason for general high elf population to be converted willingly. However, the current void elf origin does not make them a true race.
- Blizzard had plans for high elves from the start, and that means becoming void elves unwillingly.

Put all together, and I ended up with this theory:
- Last patch will involve high elves and void elves working together. Probably a Quel'thalas battle or something, that will make most high elves be rallied to fight.
- Umbric is a traitor, as are most of the void elves. "The boy king serves at the master's table" because the Alliance has been an unwitting paw of the void. The ren'dorei will do a Wrathgate-like event of treason, and spring a trap to high elves.
- Alliance heroes stops the transformation of the high elves, but it's too late, they are all transformed. We deal with Umbric somehow (either questline or raid boss), but now the high elves are almost entirely turned into void elves. This second generation of void elves now have numbers to be considered race, and is comprised mostly of elves that never wanted to deal with the void, adding a tragic element to their story. Void elf culture must now cope with that betrayal and the Alliance being wary of them.

My fears can be placated enough if that comes with more "high elf-like" customization representing this "second generation", and, more importantly, if the story is well-handled and done with the proper care for the fans and respect to the character's involved.

Of course, this is all theory, and depends entirely on all premises being true, but I think it fits very well as the easiest to implement (but probably hardest to sell) "solution" to the high elf controversy.

Interesting theories!... but I hope you're wrong. It would be terrible if the High Elves are just nuked and turned into Void Elves. That's not the race I want to play. (Void nuked elves with tentacles growing out of their heads is already playable).

A story of this sort might be an interesting way to introduce true High Elves as a playable race however. That would be a fun option, and I could see Blizzard adjusting plans for something like this because of the large demand to finally play one of the oldest races in the game.

[Varx]

Blood Elves are High Elves. Void Elves are Blood Elves.

Void Elves are High Elves.

So, yea, I do want fair skin options for the Alliance version of High Elves.

See but what some extremely petty helfers in this thread have said is that they want the specific group of high elves that have been loyal to the alliance since wc2.

Like they're so OCD and ridiculous that anything less than that is unacceptable. No fair skin velf options, no blue eyed belves, no neutral elves. Just wc2 elves. Period

Cuz you know "waaahh my lores, my immersion, it hurts my alliance logo fedora"

[Aldo Hawk]

Blood Elves are High Elves. Void Elves are Blood Elves.

Void Elves are High Elves.

So, yea, I do want fair skin options for the Alliance version of High Elves.

The Alliance version of High Elves are High elves, not Void elves, not scuffed Void elves, not scuffed High elves.

I think it couldn't be more clear than that.

[Neverafter]

The Alliance version of High Elves are High elves, not Void elves, not scuffed Void elves, not scuffed High elves.

I think it couldn't be more clear than that.

The Alliance version of High Elves are Void Elves.

As long as you hold out for Warcraft 2 High Elves (or as they later came to be known as Blood Elves) or nothing, Blizzard's answer will continue to be that; nothing.

[Aldo Hawk]

The Alliance version of High Elves are Void Elves.

As long as you hold out for Warcraft 2 High Elves (or as they later came to be known as Blood Elves) or nothing, Blizzard's answer will continue to be that; nothing.

It's not even warcraft 2, it's wow, they appear in wow, they are in the alliance in wow.

[Neverafter]

It's not even warcraft 2, it's wow, they appear in wow, they are in the alliance in wow.

All what, 10 of them?

[Aldo Hawk]

All what, 10 of them?

I can't even believe i have to repeat this again...

Luckily someone bothered to do this: https://imgur.com/a/Txczvo6

[Traycor]

they want the specific group of high elves that have been loyal to the alliance since wc2.

According to the game and the lore, that's the only group even referred to as "high elves". The other groups of Thallassians you are referring to are not called high elves and don't identify as such. The following screenshot is from WoW, in game:

[Neverafter]

I can't even believe i have to repeat this again...

Luckily someone bothered to do this: https://imgur.com/a/Txczvo6

Even assuming that all of the named and unamed NPC's from BC forward survived, that's still only maybe 30.

It's not a matter of Blizzard being right or wrong. It is their game, their lore, their reasoning. You are more than welcome to keep beating this dead horse.

The High Elf population that did not join the Horde is too small of a group to make a playable race. Period.

[Varx]

According to the game and the lore, that's the only group even referred to as "high elves". The other groups of Thallassians you are referring to are not called high elves and don't identify as such. The following screenshot is from WoW, in game:

Who cares, those high elves are associated with fair skin and blue eyes so if thats what you get wtf does it matter which sub faction they come from.

Imagine if when vanilla wow launched people threw a bitch fit cuz they wanted to play gilnean humans or lordearon survivors instead of being forced to play SW humans. Petty as fuck im sure you'd agree.

That's what you guys sound like when you say no to fair skin velves or any other idea that doesn't involve some elves from wc2.

[Traycor]

Even assuming that all of the named and unamed NPC's from BC forward survived, that's still only maybe 30.

It's not a matter of Blizzard being right or wrong. It is their game, their lore, their reasoning. You are more than welcome to keep beating this dead horse.

The High Elf population that did not join the Horde is too small of a group to make a playable race. Period.

I'll refer you to the following, coming from Ythisens, a former Warcraft CM:
https://curiouscat.me/CadenHouse/post/843519134

"Void Elves lore wise have less people than high elves but are playable."

How do you feel personally about the idea of High Elves becoming as an allied? What did the team think about them at the time of the massive megathreads?

Personally I have no issue with them becoming an allied race, as the arguments against it are pretty hard to make.
"Blood Elves and High Elves would look roughly the same." Pandaren already do this across factions.
"Lore wise there isn't enough High Elves to justify making them a playable race." Void Elves lore wise have less people than high elves but are playable.
"There's too many elf races." It's a fantasy game... and they already exist anyway.

There isn't a good reason to me apart from just flat out saying they don't want to do them. It's hard to justify game and lore wise why they can't be playable.

I can't talk about anything internal on the conversations, I'm just referencing what's been said in Q&As.

[FlubberPuddy]

Yeah, I think they're a while off, and when they happen, I believe they want them really well thought-out. What's up with that Obesealick guy? He seems like he's only here to play Ion's bff and play devil's advocate with anyone who believes in Quel'dorei.

I would hope so, rather wait super long for them to be done right rather than something tacked on which would feel like turning in a college paper just to meet the bare minimum of the rubric. Sort of like how some people have the idea that Wildhammer Dwarves would suffice just being tattoo options tacked onto existing Dwarves. When clearly an Allied Race comes with extra specific customization, racials, a mount, own hub, and separate set of classes.

As for Obelisk, at least he can admit that if Blizzard changes their mind then that's their mindset from that point on. He's got status quo on his side so it's easier to always argue with that on your side. But I'll just point out he was speaking similarly before Nightborne were confirmed as becoming playable and deftly said no more on the topic.

He has enough sense to not continue to rattle on if High Elves do get confirmed at some point in the future, that's fair enough to me. Just as I won't continue to rattle on if High Elves get confirmed to not be happening at some point in the future. That's much more respectful than people who would continue to argue after the confirmation one way or the other.

[Aldo Hawk]

Even assuming that all of the named and unamed NPC's from BC forward survived, that's still only maybe 30.

It's not a matter of Blizzard being right or wrong. It is their game, their lore, their reasoning. You are more than welcome to keep beating this dead horse.

The High Elf population that did not join the Horde is too small of a group to make a playable race. Period.

You are free to continue with your stubborn stance while i'm also free to not give proper answers if your only responses are copypastes from dead points.

Care the least minimum, at least.

[FlubberPuddy]

Of course, this is all theory, and depends entirely on all premises being true, but I think it fits very well as the easiest to implement (but probably hardest to sell) "solution" to the high elf controversy.

I would be surprised for a theory like that to happen, because it seems way too subtle for something Blizzard would do. Remember they were trying to play off that it wasn't Sylvanas that burns the tree and this faction war story would have "morally grey" moments. All we ended up with was everyone knowing the exact truth and nothing is "morally grey" other than people trying to justify Sylvanas isn't an enemy to the current Horde.

Blizzard are not known for being subtle.

Hopefully we've been clear enough through all this discussion that's been going on for over a year that Blizzard doesn't see it as something simple like "they have their Blood Elves on Alliance now".

I think the fact that Ion said Void Elves were to give something like a Blood Elf to the Alliance speaks volumes that probably the reason for wanting High Elves on Alliance in the first place all throughout previous years was unclear. They quite possibly simply saw it as "they're asking for Blood Elves on Alliance".

Hopefully with threads like on the official forums and the ones here, with all the in-game evidence and talk of thematics and such has been helpful for Blizzard to see what's being asked for in regards to High Elves.

I mean if I had to put it simply I'd equate it to the fantasy of Mag'har being uncorrupted Orcs. It doesn't matter that they're not Outland Mag'har, they still give someone the fantasy/thematics of playing an uncorrupted Orc because that is the essence of what they are.

Similarly for High Elves, the essence of them is that they've stuck with the Alliance, even against their own nation, and are against using corruptive magics.

Even when pared down to this sort of description it's easy to see that this is neither served, nor can ever be served, by the Blood Elves in the Horde nor the Void Elves who are both former Blood Elves and harness corruptive magic.

[Ielenia]

Even assuming that all of the named and unamed NPC's from BC forward survived, that's still only maybe 30.

You're objectively wrong if you think that in-game NPC population is a 1:1 representation of the actual population in the lore.

[Varx]

He has enough sense to not continue to rattle on if High Elves do get confirmed at some point in the future, that's fair enough to me. Just as I won't continue to rattle on if High Elves get confirmed to not be happening at some point in the future. That's much more respectful than people who would continue to argue after the confirmation one way or the other.

You would think that introducing an ass pull race over an already establiahed group of helves would be an obvious unspoken confirmation that helves are confirmed to never be an AR.

Like why even bother wasting time and resource on inventing velves if they were going to make helves anyway. Might as well just make high elves the belf AR and mirror to nightborne then. But alas that wasn't the case.

[Traycor]

No direct hints, but I've been trying to piece together the direction of both void elf and BfA storyline and ended up with a possible scenario that I found particularly worrying.

I started with the following premises:
- The lack of void elf development is intentional
- The little we have of void elf lore right now hints at a story direction
- Void elves were introduced for a purpose in BfA's story
- Void elves were made out of blood elves for a reason
- Blizzard don't talk about high elves not because they don't have plans, but because they won't spoil the story

Ok, then I elaborated each premise with a possible outcome:
- Void elves lack development because Blizzard does not want us to get too attached to Umbric and his group.
- Alliance seeing Umbric being all polite and helpful while knowing next to nothing about void elves, while the Horde only sees void elves going crazy about feeding souls to the void or summoning void creatures is intentional: they are hiding their true nature to the Alliance.
- Since the void elves' purpose has not been disclosed so far, they must be important in the ending of BfA.
- Void elves were made out of blood elves because there would be no reason for general high elf population to be converted willingly. However, the current void elf origin does not make them a true race.
- Blizzard had plans for high elves from the start, and that means becoming void elves unwillingly.

Put all together, and I ended up with this theory:
- Last patch will involve high elves and void elves working together. Probably a Quel'thalas battle or something, that will make most high elves be rallied to fight.
- Umbric is a traitor, as are most of the void elves. "The boy king serves at the master's table" because the Alliance has been an unwitting paw of the void. The ren'dorei will do a Wrathgate-like event of treason, and spring a trap to high elves.
- Alliance heroes stops the transformation of the high elves, but it's too late, they are all transformed. We deal with Umbric somehow (either questline or raid boss), but now the high elves are almost entirely turned into void elves. This second generation of void elves now have numbers to be considered race, and is comprised mostly of elves that never wanted to deal with the void, adding a tragic element to their story. Void elf culture must now cope with that betrayal and the Alliance being wary of them.

My fears can be placated enough if that comes with more "high elf-like" customization representing this "second generation", and, more importantly, if the story is well-handled and done with the proper care for the fans and respect to the character's involved.

Of course, this is all theory, and depends entirely on all premises being true, but I think it fits very well as the easiest to implement (but probably hardest to sell) "solution" to the high elf controversy.

Another possibility is that Sylvannas might pull a Kerigan and become a high elf again. They made a point in her warbringer cinematic of showing her to us as a high elf before the blood elves were a thing. (not sure how that could happen lore wise, but it follows the type of storytelling Blizzard seems to like)

Would she then jump factions and join her sisters? Or would she instead become a benevolent warchief for the horde?

[FlubberPuddy]

Who cares, those high elves are associated with fair skin and blue eyes so if thats what you get wtf does it matter which sub faction they come from.

Imagine if when vanilla wow launched people threw a bitch fit cuz they wanted to play gilnean humans or lordearon survivors instead of being forced to play SW humans. Petty as fuck im sure you'd agree.

That's what you guys sound like when you say no to fair skin velves or any other idea that doesn't involve some elves from wc2.

Yes, High Elves are associated with that. And as shown by the 3 different kinds of purple elves in the game, Blizzard clearly has the ability to create them in varying, distinct degrees. To imagine they cannot do that with fair colors is absurd.

Also if in the days of Vanilla people asked to play Elves or Paladins I'm sure they'd be told "go play Alliance". We've come a long way since towards increasing playable and customization options and there's more coming.

- - - Updated - - -

You would think that introducing an ass pull race over an already establiahed group of helves would be an obvious unspoken confirmation that helves are confirmed to never be an AR.

Like why even bother wasting time and resource on inventing velves if they were going to make helves anyway. Might as well just make high elves the belf AR and mirror to nightborne then. But alas that wasn't the case.

And we see that Wildhammer Dwarves, like High Elves, are a possibility for the future. So just because a more off-brand race is made playable that hasn't ruled out other models.

I bet if someone is ever able to ask for Forest Trolls they'll get a similar response, "it's possible in the future".