Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[rhorle]

Vol 1 page 37 and 38, the titans made the force of wills to feed Azeroth cosmic energy and repurposed the spirit to give sentience to rock and metal instead.

The Forge of Wills was created to draw cosmic forces to Azeroth to help bolster the world soul. You stated that they stopped Azeroth from feeding on spirit which is contradicted by the information you brought up by the Forge of Wills. Your source indicates the Titans made it so Azeroth was "eating" more cosmic energy and not less. So the elements wouldn't have had an abundance of spirit but less, right? Again you keep inserting your own headcanon just to defend your incorrect assertions.

chronicles vol 2 page 12, a abundance of spirit calms the elements to the point where they can’t walk about and causes mass growth of organic life.

It does not however state that it causes elemental spirits to turn organic. It was never in doubt that spirit calms elements when present in large amounts. Page 12 clearly indicates the elementals of Dreanor were prevented from taking a physical form by the large amounts of spirit. That large amount of spirit caused flora and fauna (not elementals) to explode over the planet. It is amazing how you cherry pick lore from Chronicles that actually disproves your claims.

no I claimed that if the PANTHEON is present it could be given owner ship, I specifically pointed to Elune the pantheon member being present which you are still ignoring because you know the old gods and Naaru aren’t part of there pantheons but you don’t want to admit to being wrong.

Right. And forces of all pantheons have been present in the Great Dark Beyond. No one owns it because it isn't a plane of existence for just one cosmic force. There is a way to know if it can't be both. Because then it wouldn't be "Lifelands". It is that simple because Lifelands is the term the community uses to reference that yet named plane of Life. You also don't know that the Pantheon of Light isn't in the GDB. All you keep doing is using your head canon assumptions to argue as if they are facts.

Like I originally said your logic is silly. It doesn't become the lifelands simply because members of the Life cosmic force are present even if they are Pantheon-level.

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I wonder if Blizzard wants to follow the movie Eternals:

It would have to be the comics as we've known since WotLK that the Titans (and keepers) don't really care about mortal life being preserved.

[The Stormbringer]

The new infinite models look amazing.

Can I play this instead of Dracthyr? Hooolyyy shiiiit.

[KainneAbsolute]

going by what steve likes we might just have an insane alextrasza burn down stormwind

Primal-infused time-twisted Alextrasza ready to take revenge over the Horde

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Can I play this instead of Dracthyr? Hooolyyy shiiiit.

Blizzard has a gold mine and they don't notice it

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Leave...Stormwind out of it.

Primal-infused time-twisted Alextrasza ready to take revenge over the Horde

Alternate timeline Alexstraza is the one to go insane and Wise Noble Neltharion has to rally the flights against her.

[Khaza-R]

Can I play this instead of Dracthyr? Hooolyyy shiiiit.

Maybe there's space to leave Dracthyr and Evokers as is but give that as an option for the other classes people want from a dragonkin race?

[Cheezits]

TBH I agree that Drakonids should be playable, but I feel bad for Blizz. Who would've thought that many people want to play dragons without wings?

[Veluren]

Looks like WoWhead dug up some new dialogue related to the start of the expansion.

Apparently the Alliance is particularly shitty to Dracthyr and the idea of helping the dragons, with Turalyon, who was only around when dragons meant Bad Things and read up on Onyxia in hindsight, being red-flag-level paranoid about Dracthyr integrating too deeply into the Alliance's society to the point of telling Shaw he wants mages to develop ways to out dragons in Visage form.

Well, guess there's your incentive to make your Evokers go Horde.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Looks like WoWhead dug up some new dialogue related to the start of the expansion.

Apparently the Alliance is particularly shitty to Dracthyr and the idea of helping the dragons, with Turalyon, who was only around when dragons meant Bad Things and read up on Onyxia in hindsight, being red-flag-level paranoid about Dracthyr integrating too deeply into the Alliance's society to the point of telling Shaw he wants mages to develop ways out out dragons in Visage form.

Well, guess there's your incentive to make your Evokers go Horde.

Not really incentive, just further setup to turn Turalyon bad and basically have Blue Horde. Yay -_-


Edit: Since I overreacted well but I am still wary, considering Turalyon's character and he is on the throne so to speak.

[Nymrohd]

Looks like WoWhead dug up some new dialogue related to the start of the expansion.

Apparently the Alliance is particularly shitty to Dracthyr and the idea of helping the dragons, with Turalyon, who was only around when dragons meant Bad Things and read up on Onyxia in hindsight, being red-flag-level paranoid about Dracthyr integrating too deeply into the Alliance's society to the point of telling Shaw he wants mages to develop ways to out dragons in Visage form.

Well, guess there's your incentive to make your Evokers go Horde.

I mean most of the people in Stormwind probably know about Onyxia.

[cocomen2]

The new infinite models look amazing.

i find it hilarious, that any of these "bodies" look more pleasing for me, if made to be playbale dragonic races, rather than that Dracthyr abomination.


1) True Dragons - og races as visage form, dragon form on all four maybe with armor pieces. YES please (transmog works only in visage form, cost that i am willing to pay to get real dragon body)

2) Dragonoids - buff muscular draconic species, monster features with scary faces, without wings. YES please (transmog works)

3) Dragonmen - small hunched draconic species, with more soft akin crocodile features and extra long tail, no wings. YES please (transmog works)

4) Dracthyr - thin reptilian race with wings, transmog only in visage form, human/elf, goofy faces that smile 24/7, visage form with face burns of 3rd degree. PLS NO

[Cheezits]

The Orgrimmar guards say the same thing as the Stormwind ones, and there is a placeholder conversation between Lor'themar and Thalyssra that is apparently supposed to be the same kind of "what do we think about Dracthyr" thing.

Knowing those characters, it's going to be nicer than the Alliance pair (who HAVE been fucked more by Dragons), but I can absolutely see the "unplayable masses" of the Horde (who decided BFA) not liking dragons just as Humans would.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The Forge of Wills was created to draw cosmic forces to Azeroth to help bolster the world soul. You stated that they stopped Azeroth from feeding on spirit which is contradicted by the information you brought up by the Forge of Wills. Your source indicates the Titans made it so Azeroth was "eating" more cosmic energy and not less. So the elements wouldn't have had an abundance of spirit but less, right? Again you keep inserting your own headcanon just to defend your incorrect assertions.

page 38, the forge’s job was two fold it fed Azeroth cosmic energy while also using its spirit to make new life.

Effectively watering a plant so you harvest the fruit, being more Spirit.

It does not however state that it causes elemental spirits to turn organic. It was never in doubt that spirit calms elements when present in large amounts. Page 12 clearly indicates the elementals of draenor form by the large amounts of spirit. That large amount of spirit caused flora and fauna (not elementals) to explode over the planet. It is amazing how you cherry pick lore from Chronicles that actually disproves your claims.

yes spirit calms the elements, and the elements turned to flesh as there fury ebbed, IE they were calmed after the forge of wills stating putting more spirit into Azeroth (the planet not the soul), draenor then shows us that organic life and it’s abundance is in direct response to the amount of spirit and how it keeps the elements in check, IE calmer elements more organized.

edit, should have double checked Vol 2 other then to just grab a page number earlier. here's chronicles directly telling us that Spirit turns elements to flesh.

Right. And forces of all pantheons have been present in the Great Dark Beyond.

irrelevant the pantheons of only two have ever been in the great dark which you are continuing to avoid as you know you are wrong.

Like I originally said your logic is silly.

yes the straw man you have built about the forces of each pantheons or the old gods and Naaru being equal to the titans is silly.

Thankfully my logic of the pantheons them selfs being in the great dark holds up just fine.

[Veluren]

I suppose it seems a little odd to me that between this reaction and the idea that Visage form increases the party's out-of-combat regen by making the party feel more comfortable, they seem to be treating Dracthyr as these horrific monsters that even your own allies are nervous to be next to for too long, when imo they're really not that offensive.

I mean I guess from the perspective of someone living IN Azeroth you're looking at a giant carnivorous reptile with a history of manipulation and almost destroying the world, but it seems weird these responses seem almost more hostile than the initial welcoming to Death Knights and Demon Hunters despite them being way worse on a cosmic-powers sense than just dragons.

Maybe there'll be some extra context to come out of the Dracthyr starter zone we're lacking.

[Nymrohd]

Of the five Dragonflights, Blacks and Blues directly tried to kill everyone alive. People in power know both the green and the bronze flight have large rogue segments.

Dragons have caused far more harm than good to Azeroth so far.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Of the five Dragonflights, Blacks and Blues directly tried to kill everyone alive. People in power know both the green and the bronze flight have large rogue segments.

Dragons have caused far more harm than good to Azeroth so far.

The Blues part was also pretty dumb and stupid for a plot element. Also we still work with them at the end of the day. More harm then good is a bit dishonest though.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

you think sylvanas and the janitor will show up in df?

[Xilurm]

you think sylvanas and the janitor will show up in df?

Ain't he dead?

[Nymrohd]

The Blues part was also pretty dumb and stupid for a plot element. Also we still work with them at the end of the day. More harm then good is a bit dishonest though.

Did they ever do good?

[rhorle]

page 38, the forge’s job was two fold it fed Azeroth cosmic energy while also using its spirit to make new life.

Which again contradicts your statement that the Titans stopped Azeroth from "eating" spirit. You keep doubling down on defending claims even yourself has proven isn't correct.

edit, should have double checked Vol 2 other then to just grab a page number earlier. here's chronicles directly telling us that Spirit turns elements to flesh.

There is literally nothing on that page talking about elementals. There is no need for you to seek out anything other then Page 12. It clearly indicates the excess of spirit on Dreanor caused its elementals to become incorporeal. Unable to have a physical form. What is required for flesh and bone? A physical form. All you are doing is showing that you don't care about the lore but about not being wrong.

irrelevant the pantheons of only two have ever been in the great dark which you are continuing to avoid as you know you are wrong.

Yes in the Great Dark Beyond. Not the Lifelands. Not the Orderlands. You again demonstrate you understand my point but are unwilling to actually admit you are wrong. Your logic doesn't hold up just fine because the presence of a cosmic force doesn't make that realm theirs. According do you Azeroth would exist in the Shadowlands if the Eternal Ones travelled to the planet. Lmao.

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The Blues part was also pretty dumb and stupid for a plot element. Also we still work with them at the end of the day. More harm then good is a bit dishonest though.

Dumb? It was started because of the perceived reckless use of magic by mortals and specifically the Kirin'tor. He did have a point and since he was crazy for thousands of years he went overboard.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

there is literally nothing on that page talking about elementals. There is no need for you to seek out anything other then Page 12. It clearly indicates the excess of spirit on Dreanor caused its elementals to become incorporeal. Unable to have a physical form. What is required for flesh and bone? A physical form. All you are doing is showing that you don't care about the lore but about not being wrong.

I'm just gonna focus on this as I don't normally link more then a page at a time as I always prefer people to find the sources them selfs, but ill make an exception this one time as you keep doubling down on purposeful obtuseness and ignoring what I'm actually posting so Ill just let blizzard them self's do the talking.

Page 13 Aggramar makes the first elemental on Draenor, named grond

page 16 chucks of grond become there own elements the colossal, other elementals spirits follow them into physical forms as the spore mounds ate enough spirit that they could do so.

page 18 the colossals spawn there own lesser elements just like grond, the magnaron.

and then finally page 19 the elemental Magnaron are turned to flesh by Spirit


but I'm sure all of this is uneeded as I don't need any thing other then page 12 as I don't care about the lore.