Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Syegfryed]

Actually there is such a thing. Otherwise why you think blood elves have green eyes in the first place? why you think high elves have blue eyes?

green eye is the result of radiation of fel energy, is not Corruption, is side effect, its moot because also there is blood elves with blue eyes

there is no such thing of "pure elves of the alliance, blonde with blue eyes" this narrative will not and should not come to pass for obvious reasons

Or even why you think Nightborne are so sophisticated? There's a reason for those names and the blood elves were known as the evil ones after the sunwell's destruction/corrupted during the Scourge attack by Arthas to ressurect Kelthu'zad as a lich (that you later fight in Naxxramas).

i am 99.9%sure that they didn't got corrupted after the sunwell since i never read something like that

Th green eyes happened later, Blood Elves/High Elves were already corrupted and renamed themselves Blood elves to honor the fallen ones at the war.

but what corruption did happen to then? if this si true then "every single high elf in existence today should be corrupted, and there would be no such thing of pure elves anyway.

@Syegfryed https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...es_and_trolls/

this would be more accurate:

[FlubberPuddy]

Here is a bit of confirmation that AR are most likely going to get future customization.

With these new customizations, will we see improvements to customizations for Allied Races as well? What about Death Knight customizations?

So, with new character customization, we are focusing mainly in the original races, not allied races. we are able to apply new customizations to them, like separate the eyes from the rest of the models, with the help of the Technical team, so you have more options to choose from. We are not touching Allied Races at this time, we are focusing on the main races. There are no plans to expanding custom DK customization at this point.

"At this time" and not a 'Allied Races have a specific look that we want to preserve' or anything of the sort.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=296035/...ing-pathfinder

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Also, from same link. Here's confirmation that there's no lore explanation for the new customization looks.

Will there be any unlock process behind the new customizations coming in Shadowlands?

No, all the customizations come unlocked. Soon as they are available you will be able to visit your barbershop and get them on your character.

[Strippling]

Here is a bit of confirmation that AR are most likely going to get future customization.


"At this time" and not a 'Allied Races have a specific look that we want to preserve' or anything of the sort.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=296035/...ing-pathfinder

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Also, from same link. Here's confirmation that there's no lore explanation for the new customization looks.

They mentioned something like 40 odd customization options will be available to blood elves. I'd dare say this will likely include blue eyes and tattoos (given that dwarves and trolls are getting tattoo options). So I'd say anyone who wants to play a blue eyed thalassian with tattoos will have the option of doing so on the Horde.

When additional customizations are eventually given to ARs (based on Blizz's timing this is likely several years away), I would imagine that void elves would be given additional "void" orientated options, given they're void elves. Would make no sense to give them "fair skin" options when A) they're void elves and B) that would make them more like blood elves, and Blizzard very intentionally gave void elves are purply tint to differentiate them from the fair skin thalassian elves on the Horde

[FlubberPuddy]

When additional customizations are eventually given to ARs (based on Blizz's timing this is likely several years away), I would imagine that void elves would be given additional "void" orientated options, given they're void elves. Would make no sense to give them "fair skin" options when A) they're void elves and B) that would make them more like blood elves, and Blizzard very intentionally gave void elves are purply tint to differentiate them from the fair skin thalassian elves on the Horde

It would actually perfectly line up with Afrasiabi saying about getting High Elf skins on Void Elves.

[Strippling]

It would actually perfectly line up with Afrasiabi saying about getting High Elf skins on Void Elves.

He never said void elves were getting high elf skins. Big exaggeration there.

[Kyphael]

He never said void elves were getting high elf skins. Big exaggeration there.

He hinted it was open to possibility.

[Fyersing]

So I'd say anyone who wants to play a blue eyed thalassian with tattoos will have the option of doing so on the Horde.

As if the only notable characteristic of High Elves is that they've got blue eyes and/or tattoos -- they're High Elves because of their political allegiance to the Alliance, not their coloration.

[Manariel]

As if the only notable characteristic of High Elves is that they've got blue eyes and/or tattoos -- they're High Elves because of their political allegiance to the Alliance, not their coloration.

This. Let the Horde have blue eyed thalassian elves. They'll never be High Elves nonetheless.

[cocomen2]

That's cute, whoever paperclipped Blood Elves with the High Elves. Why do the Blood Elves call themselves a separate race if they're exactly the same as High Elves?

This is mine whole point, why change name of race if all Blood elfs are High elf? This name change has sense only if old members of High elf race still on Alliance side and not some 1-3 people but force that can be called a "RACE". Then to distinguish themselves to be much different race they would need to rename their tribe-race.

Otherwise that would look like this :

TBC patch notes : High Elfs joined Horde........ but this isnt a case?)

[Aldo Hawk]

This is mine whole point, why change name of race if all Blood elfs are High elf? This name change has sense only if old members of High elf race still on Alliance side and not some 1-3 people but force that can be called a "RACE". Then to distinguish themselves to be much different race they would need to rename their tribe-race.

Otherwise that would look like this :

TBC patch notes : High Elfs joined Horde........ but this isnt a case?)

Race is not a 100% correct word that the game uses to describe the playable options, I would not stick to it by what a dictionary may say.

[elbleuet]

As if the only notable characteristic of High Elves is that they've got blue eyes and/or tattoos -- they're High Elves because of their political allegiance to the Alliance, not their coloration.

An Alliance blood elf would still be a blood elf though.

[Strippling]

He hinted it was open to possibility.

Anything is open to possibility. His answer was as non-committal as they get, I wouldn't hold your breath.

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An Alliance blood elf would still be a blood elf though.

With that logic a void elf with high elf skin options would still be a void elf... yet lo and behold alliance players don't care about that so long as they get their fair skinned elf.

[Starla]

It would actually perfectly line up with Afrasiabi saying about getting High Elf skins on Void Elves.

But that wouldn't make them High Elves on the Alliance, would it?

[scubi666stacy]

This. Let the Horde have blue eyed thalassian elves. They'll never be High Elves nonetheless.

They are High Elves. Your "Alliance Elves" are just exiles and renegades, traitors even. They spit on all the people who died protecting their homeland from the Scourge. Just because they delude themselves that they are the "true ones" because they keep the name, they have wronged their people. Honestly, if I would be writing WoW, then the High Elves would all have been exterminated already, if they would not want to return to the restored Sunwell and to Quel'thalas. Vereesa and her brood would have died shortly after Rhonin. Alleria would only have survived because she was away, and now she would be a target for bounty hunters, just like all other Void Elves. Lor'themar is really too soft in this regard.

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But that wouldn't make them High Elves on the Alliance, would it?

You have your NPCs.

[Rhlor]

This is mine whole point, why change name of race if all Blood elfs are High elf? This name change has sense only if old members of High elf race still on Alliance side and not some 1-3 people but force that can be called a "RACE". Then to distinguish themselves to be much different race they would need to rename their tribe-race.

Otherwise that would look like this :

TBC patch notes : High Elfs joined Horde........ but this isnt a case?)

the name was changed in WC3 in memory of the fallen and the blood of the highborne, some "high elves" were blood elves at that time as Death-Hunter Hawkspear.
high elves is not the name of a race, it is more similar to the name of a political group.
Another name used by the high elves and still using the blood elves is Beloredorei. We see this in the novel blood of the Highborne and heritage quest

[Obelisk Kai]

They're not a compromise and is the reason why so many are still asking for playable High Elves. Even when MrGM asked the question he prefaced it with 'being a very contentious topic', why is it a contentious topic, it was never as contentious 6 years ago, 10 years ago - why now? Because of the recent rise of being highly vocal about getting High Elves on Alliance. So much so that the opposite of the request have asked for Blue eyed Blood Elves as some form of 'end to the High Elf request'.

They are a compromise, simply one you personally reject. That does not make it any less a compromise. For example, if a Trade Union negotiates a new pay deal with the bosses, the resultant agreement is a compromise between the workers and management. The Trade Union then puts the new pay deal to a vote of the membership on whether to accept or reject the compromise negotiated. Those who are opposed to the compromise do not get to say the compromise isn't a compromise because they are unhappy with the result, but it IS a compromise. Similarly, it is clear to everyone without an agenda (playable alliance high elves) that Void Elves are a compromise. The Alliance got the model, and they got a group of thalassian elves, but what they did not get was a particular group of elves who are thematically and aesthetically identical to a core Horde race. In other words the Alliance got a part of what they were requesting, but not all, and what they didn't get respected Blizzard's red lines regarding faction diversity..that seems pretty much like a compromise to me.
And of course, lest we forget, Blizzard seemingly spent the entire con telling people the factions weren't going away, grouping restrictions weren't being loosened and that the Horde-Alliance divide is a 'pillar' of the franchise. Keeping the factions as distinct as possible is a part of that divide, because to undermine it is to reduce the factions to being a question of what your favourite colour is, red or blue.

And this topic was hugely contentious six years ago. Just because you were not participating in the debate at that point does not mean it was a less active topic. The real difference is the Allied race system's introduction, which has meant a topic that used to be seasonal i.e in the run up to every expansion announcement where a new feature would be announced with the new expansion which could conceivably have been high elves has been replaced by the constant drum of beat of a pair of allied races being introduced every six to nine months since the first four were added. Which is one of the reasons we should offer thanks that the BFA Allied race cycle has almost certainly drawn to a close. With the opportunities for new additions to the Alliance and Horde once again becoming rare, hopefully this topic will return to what it was. Eight months of arguing before Blizzcon and sixteen months of quiet after.

As for 'blue eyes for blood elves' being the end of the High Elf request, it isn't. The high elf request died the moment they added Blood Elves to the Horde. And it was buried on the two occasions Ion was asked about it, the first of those occasions being over two years ago mind. Just as the April Forbes' interview with Hazzikostas, the one where he defended the faction wall, shows that you REALLY should pay attention to whatever the developers are telling you (as I recall you disagreed with that article almost immediately and tried to discount it), so perhaps you should listen to what they are saying regarding a High Elf allied race. That is, it's not happening.
Blue eyes for Blood Elves is just that, blue eyes for Blood Elves. A simple and small customization option for Blood Elves that many Blood Elves would like and one that is entirely consistent with the lore. If the pro High Elf side has invested that eye colour with so much importance, that they see it psychologically as the lynchpin of their request, then more fool them. At the end of the day, it's just an eye colour.

snip

Much of the rest of what you have written is predicated on a flawed notion. That the extra customization options provided to Dwarves and Trolls etc. allow different tribes of those races to be playable on the core race option, simply by providing the aesthetic and that this can be expanded to Void Elves having a High Elf aesthetic. Before I begin I will point out the implicit acceptance that the dream of a separate High Elf option in the character creator, which a lot of pro High Elfers have defined as the marker for success, is seemingly dead. I will define that as a win

Dwarves and Trolls, the core races, are pretty generic everydwarves or everytrolls. Nothing about them really differentiates them from MOST other Dwarves or MOST other Trolls beyond their allegiance to the Alliance and Horde respectively beyond tattoos or moderate skin tone differences, which as you've pointed out are being added to the base model.

Where your argument falls apart is the unique circumstances of certain Allied races. What you suggest could not allow people to play as Dragonmaw Orcs within the Mag'har, because the Mag'har Orc very specifically comes from an alternate timeline and could not have been one of the Orcs at the Battle of Grim Batol. A Dark Iron Dwarf cannot pretend to be a Wildhammer, both because of their substantially different lore backgrounds but also because the Dark Irons seemingly have minor yet notable physiological differences with other Dwarves, the touch of fire about them.

A Void Elf with a High Elf aesthetic is still a Void Elf. A new skin tone will not allow you to escape the origin of that race. It will not allow you to pretend your character has not made a pact with the Void. Every time your character speaks, emotes, jokes or flirts and you hear that reverb in their voice that signifies their connection to something otherwordly, the illusion will break. Every time you wear your Void Elf heritage armor, the illusion will break. Every time entropic embrace procs, the illusion will break. You cannot pretend to be a High Elf on a Void Elf because of how highly specific the origins Void Elves are and those origins are highly specific as part of the process of differentiating them from their parent to begin with.

A Dwarf player who customises themselves as a Wildhammer will have no bother living out that fantasy. A Void Elf player who attempts to pretend to be a High Elf is going to be kidding themselves as the very game conspires to prove them wrong.

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That's cute, whoever paperclipped Blood Elves with the High Elves. Why do the Blood Elves call themselves a separate race if they're exactly the same as High Elves?

Because at the time they wrote the rise of the Blood Elves campaign they probably thought giving High Elves a new name and a nifty red armor aesthetic was a cool thing to do.

They probably regret doing so now. If they'd just kept calling them High Elves we wouldn't be having this discussion.

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He hinted it was open to possibility.

No, he said it was possible. Anything is possible. That's their standard line when the answer is no and not likely to change for the foreseeable future. Ion used it when ruling out High Elves in 2017 and 2018. He even deployed it again in his interview with Preach when Preach asked about master looting. It's empty lawyer talk.

Holinka said much the same thing, then segued into a much longer comment on forum behaviour which is more indicative of the perception of this topic as a flaming dumpster fire by the developers than any kind of promise.

As if the only notable characteristic of High Elves is that they've got blue eyes and/or tattoos -- they're High Elves because of their political allegiance to the Alliance, not their coloration.

Given that I've been saying this for years, please understand this comment produced a wry smile. That is exactly the point, all they have is the political allegiance to the Alliance. That and the blue eyes is essentially the package the pro High Elf community has put forward as the basis for how different the High Elf exiles are from the Blood Elves.

In the scenario where Blood Elves do end up getting blue eyes as part of our expanded customization options, this allegiance will be all you have left...it will be their SOLE notable characteristic and it's just not enough. Nowhere near enough.

This. Let the Horde have blue eyed thalassian elves. They'll never be High Elves nonetheless.

Blood Elves have been stated to be High Elves by the makers of the game. Every Blood Elf was, only a few years ago in game, calling themselves a High Elf.
Blood Elves are High Elves. High Elves are a Horde race. And if the blue eyes helps people come to terms with this fact, then so much the better.

[Uthan]

With that logic a void elf with high elf skin options would still be a void elf... yet lo and behold alliance players don't care about that so long as they get their fair skinned elf.

For all your posting here you seem to not have read much of the thread. Yes, a Void Elf with fair skin would still be a Void Elf, the difference of which the Alliance players asking for High Elves would definitely care about. Some would settle for such a compromise sure, but far from all. A lot of us (hard to say if it's "most" or not) just want the since always alliance aligned high elves, not blood elves or blood elf plus aka void elf.

[elbleuet]

Anything is open to possibility. His answer was as non-committal as they get, I wouldn't hold your breath.

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With that logic a void elf with high elf skin options would still be a void elf... yet lo and behold alliance players don't care about that so long as they get their fair skinned elf.

A void elf is a corrupted blood elf saved by Alleria. If there was a high elf skin option, we would just play a high elf using the void.

Also, a daily reminder blood elves are corrupted high elves, and no longer consider themselves as high elves.

[Starla]

A void elf is a corrupted blood elf saved by Alleria. If there was a high elf skin option, we would just play a high elf using the void.

Also, a daily reminder blood elves are corrupted high elves.

Where is this stated in the lore? Corrupted?

[Maxilian]

Where is this stated in the lore? Corrupted?

I think he refers to the effect of the Fel radiation that they have, is not much of a corruption, but still... i can see why may see it that way