Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Katchii]

Where.

/10chars

Where what? Where is the canon reason why High Elves shouldn't look different than Blood Elves?

If they do ever get implemented and they do look different that's for game play reasons only because, lore wise, there is absolutely no reason for a High Elf to look physically different from a Blood Elf because they're the exact same race. This doesn't stop them from having small aesthetic differences like eye color, idle stances, hair styles and stuff like that though.

[Shakana]

I never claimed they were. I was simply trying to do a TL; DR for that long post. They are the same RACE is all I said.

I don't disagree that the Thalassian elves who retained the High Elf name are not the same people/culture as Blood Elves, but to claim that all High Elves are one people is stretching it. Aside from the High Elves in The Silver Hand that reside in Dalaran, they're all scattered across the world with little to no contact from each other in self imposed exile from Quel'thalas, they're hardly a uniform, cohesive community.

That said, I can completely see how basing an Allied Race on the Silver Hand High Elves would make sense lore wise. But I agree with @Obelisk Kai on this, that based on previous statements from Blizzard and the inclusion of Void Elves, I just don't ever see it happening in-game for game play reasons. Would be pleasantly surprised if it did and I'm not opposed to the idea, I'm just saying I don't see it happening.

Saying all Blood Elves are High Elves is a long stretch. Ion saying that you have High Elves on Horde is a stretch. They will never be the same, it's written everywhere High Elves and Blood Elves still exist. As i said, they should have just made all High Elves turn into Blood Elves, but as it was not the case, that fissure will ALWAYS be there. No matter how much you say they are the same race, ignoring the mutation and the ones that didn't go through what blood elves did, they will always be different. VE are considered different only because they got a better distinction of mutation, their skin are purple, instead of just green eyes.

Believe me, no matter how much turns you do on the subject you'll always separate High Elves from Blood elves, and only connect them by the looks. Always.

[Katchii]

Saying all Blood Elves are High Elves is a long stretch. Ion saying that you have High Elves on Horde is a stretch. They will never be the same, it's written everywhere High Elves and Blood Elves still exist. As i said, they should have just made all High Elves turn into Blood Elves, but as it was not the case, that fissure will ALWAYS be there. No matter how much you say they are the same race, ignoring the mutation and the ones that didn't go through what blood elves did, they will always be different. VE are considered different only because they got a better distinction of mutation, their skin are purple, instead of just green eyes.

Believe me, no matter how much turns you do on the subject you'll always separate High Elves from Blood elves, and only connect them by the looks. Always.

Why is it a stretch? The name change happened like ~12-15 years ago which means all living adult Blood Elves were High Elves. Are you saying that every living adult Blood Elf changed races, physically, genetically, etc... when they changed their name?

What mutation? If you're referring to their eye color, the reason behind that is now gone. What other, if any, mutations affected Blood Elves that make them a completely different race than they were just 15 years ago?

The only major difference between the two groups is political affiliation. There is nothing physically different between the two groups except for eye color, which is incredibly minor, and isn't likely to even be a thing anymore since the purification of the Sunwell and the likely return of blue eyes for Blood Elves.

[Aldo Hawk]

I never claimed they were. I was simply trying to do a TL; DR for that long post. They are the same RACE is all I said.

I don't disagree that the Thalassian elves who retained the High Elf name are not the same people/culture as Blood Elves, but to claim that all High Elves are one people is stretching it. Aside from the High Elves in The Silver Hand that reside in Dalaran, they're all scattered across the world with little to no contact from each other in self imposed exile from Quel'thalas, they're hardly a uniform, cohesive community.

That said, I can completely see how basing an Allied Race on the Silver Hand High Elves would make sense lore wise. But I agree with @Obelisk Kai on this, that based on previous statements from Blizzard and the inclusion of Void Elves, I just don't ever see it happening in-game for game play reasons. Would be pleasantly surprised if it did and I'm not opposed to the idea, I'm just saying I don't see it happening.

But you can see how some of the reasons that are stated against High elves are also shared with what Void elves are, right?

High elves are also low numbered, but never described or found within just a group of researchers.

It's said that High elves don't have any kind of hub from where they come, but it's just nonsensical when compared to Void elves, who have Telogrus, somewhere in the space, while High elves actually have Dalaran or any lodge from where they can come.

High elves look similar to Blood elves, but Void elves, even with the changes they got, are still confused with Blood elves, and we have Pandaren in the game, which have even less differences outside just appearance.

And with the argument of them not being unified, I can only say that it is also not a definitive answer to determine if they are a valid request or not, since the recruitment scenario can be used to reunite them, or they can come from just one of the groups making the playable High elf option come from an organization that has the same amount of people than the Void elves, or anything, it's just not definitive enough.

And so on and so forth, I can be here for hours explaining why there is not a definitive reason, even less a factual one, for them to not possibly becoming playable outside personal preferences.

That is all the message I want to maintain out there, this is not an invent and there is no real reason for it to never happen.

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Yeah I can believe that. Tundra even used to use some of the old beta models, so it makes sense. Funny that they went back there to update that.

I strongly believe that they have taken these and made something with the idea. Similar to what they did with the survival hunter, which was a melee spec all those years ago.

In fact, I want to find something again, and it was some article or interview or something where the devs talked about discarding the idea of making different models for each race, thing that we have seen with humans.

[Shakana]

Also it comes to discussion if you rather be a high elf that didn't got exposed to fel and suck living things as "vampires" as they say to be playable, to one that is all that.

You might just want to play a untouched exposed not-sucking living things elf. A very much original variation of the model of high elves. I call them pure because they weren't like mutated in any way, or have to go through painful stuff.

[Aldo Hawk]

Where what? Where is the canon reason why High Elves shouldn't look different than Blood Elves?

If they do ever get implemented and they do look different that's for game play reasons only because, lore wise, there is absolutely no reason for a High Elf to look physically different from a Blood Elf because they're the exact same race. This doesn't stop them from having small aesthetic differences like eye color, idle stances, hair styles and stuff like that though.

That is not the point of the question, at all.

I am asking about where did she found such explanation for Kul'tiran models.

Why can she claim it.

Where is it.

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@Aldo Hawk also sorry the other day i had a bit tantrum on you. I was stressed at work and kind of was a bit blind and without patience. About the "let my blood elves be blood elves and not make high elves at all" kind of thing. I wasn't even on a right condition to think, not even sure why i went on a argument feeling like that.

Anyhow. Glad you're out of banned as well. (I was too).

Yeah, well...

Just remember I am also a Horde player, and a Blood elf main, I am not here to diminish neither, at all.

[Shakana]

Why is it a stretch? The name change happened like ~12-15 years ago which means all living adult Blood Elves were High Elves. Are you saying that every living adult Blood Elf changed races, physically, genetically, etc... when they changed their name?

What mutation? If you're referring to their eye color, the reason behind that is now gone. What other, if any, mutations affected Blood Elves that make them a completely different race than they were just 15 years ago?

The only major difference between the two groups is political affiliation. There is nothing physically different between the two groups except for eye color, which is incredibly minor, and isn't likely to even be a thing anymore since the purification of the Sunwell and the likely return of blue eyes for Blood Elves.

The eye color just shows something is not quite the same with them. Think about that. Mutations can come in pretty much every way. What happens inside, and their ideals, means more than what we think. A simple change like that in a movie for example, means it's a new breed. Because you don't see changes on body doesn't mean they are not a different race. They changed. They just didn't change physically.

[Aldo Hawk]

Also it comes to discussion if you rather be a high elf that didn't got exposed to fel and suck living things as "vampires" as they say to be playable, to one that is all that.

You might just want to play a untouched exposed not-sucking living things elf. A very much original variation of the model of high elves. I call them pure because they weren't like mutated in any way, or have to go through painful stuff.

That is basically one of the reasons why High elves could be changed to portray how Blood elves looked like before being tainted by the fel radiation/consumption.

I would not want them to be extremely changed, but some smaller features, I can't really come out with any now, but I remember talking about it in this thread, I will try to find it.

[Katchii]

But you can see how some of the reasons that are stated against High elves are also shared with what Void elves are, right?

High elves are also low numbered, but never described or found within just a group of researchers.

It's said that High elves don't have any kind of hub from where they come, but it's just nonsensical when compared to Void elves, who have Telogrus, somewhere in the space, while High elves actually have Dalaran or any lodge from where they can come.

High elves look similar to Blood elves, but Void elves, even with the changes they got, are still confused with Blood elves, and we have Pandaren in the game, which have even less differences outside just appearance.

And with the argument of them not being unified, I can only say that it is also not a definitive answer to determine if they are a valid request or not, since the recruitment scenario can be used to reunite them, or they can come from just one of the groups making the playable High elf option come from an organization that has the same amount of people than the Void elves, or anything, it's just not definitive enough.

And so on and so forth, I can be here for hours explaining why there is not a definitive reason, even less a factual one, for them to not possibly becoming playable outside personal preferences.

That is all the message I want to maintain out there, this is not an invent and there is no real reason for it to never happen.

I align with you on all of this, except for the Pandaren. It was stated some time ago by Blizzard that they don't want to ever do something like that again, as it blurs faction lines. Them being in the game now doesn't mean that Blizzard will ever do something similar again, like adding a physically identical race on the opposite faction.

That said, I really don't see how that could be used as any concrete defense considering Void Elves and Blood Elves look identical when in the same armor and Night Elves and Nighborne looking strikingly similar (if not identical...I haven't done the comparison so won't speak in absolutes).

There isn't really any hugely justifiable reason for Blizzard NOT to introduce High Elves at this point except "I don't want to," which while petty and dumb IMO...is a perfectly valid reason from the owners and creators of the game.

[Shakana]

That is basically one of the reasons why High elves could be changed to portray how Blood elves looked like before being tainted by the fel radiation/consumption.

I would not want them to be extremely changed, but some smaller features, I can't really come out with any now, but I remember talking about it in this thread, I will try to find it.

Well i have basically been here all day talking about giving high elves a nozdormu customization faces and body and stances. I just love it so much.
And for me, it would be the thing, no doubt it would.

I guess you have been reading some stuff, so probably you have read that already.
But then the void elves would need to be changed too. Init?

It ends up being a bit complexed. No wonder why blizzard can't decide what to do with High Elves and made Void Elves instead lol.
But, if they presented high elves instead of void elves, then we wouldn't have such a big discussion, as their excuse was that minority of high elves have survived.

[Katchii]

The eye color just shows something is not quite the same with them. Think about that. Mutations can come in pretty much every way. What happens inside, and their ideals, means more than what we think. A simple change like that in a movie for example, means it's a new breed. Because you don't see changes on body doesn't mean they are not a different race. They changed. They just didn't change physically.

Which was the whole point if that particular discussion, the physical difference between a High Elf and a Blood Elf. Aside from eye color, there is none.

[Ignaz]

It's not a plot hole at all.

It's a plot hole. I don't think Blizzard developers have studied genetics or medicine to integrate these concepts into their story. they didn't even integrate basic concepts like species and race correctly (for Blizzard the word race encompasses the concept of spice and race at the same time)

There are physiological differences between all organisms that are even slightly different, even twins.

What is the physiological difference between healthy twins?

If they say that Blood Elves and high elves are as physiologically similar as members of the same race, then they should appear as members of the same race.

Again, we don't know if they are talking about species or races. According to Blizzard standards, a minimal phenotypic change (another skin color or different horns) is enough to convert an individual belonging to one race to another (e.g. allied races). BE have those phenotypic changes (obviously not the horns). remember that HE have more pale skin and their hair tones are usually pale too, instead BE has more tanned skin besides having another variety of hair colors, plus their green and golden eyes ( the two mutations I mentioned earlier).

I'm not going to go through the whole culture debate today, that's a separate topic.

I do not think it is necessary to discuss the different political and cultural positions between both sides. We already know and agree that there are differences

[Katchii]

That is not the point of the question, at all.

I am asking about where did she found such explanation for Kul'tiran models.

Why can she claim it.

Where is it.

My mistake then. I have no idea where that claim comes from.

[Aldo Hawk]

I align with you on all of this, except for the Pandaren. It was stated some time ago by Blizzard that they don't want to ever do something like that again, as it blurs faction lines. Them being in the game now doesn't mean that Blizzard will ever do something similar again, like adding a physically identical race on the opposite faction.

No, the reason why I bring Pandaren is not to say that they could introduce them being the same. But that they can't be a 1:1 carbon copy as Pandaren are.

There isn't really any hugely justifiable reason for Blizzard NOT to introduce High Elves at this point except "I don't want to," which while petty and dumb IMO...is a perfectly valid reason from the owners and creators of the game.

And that is why this still continues, because there has not been a definitive answer, and even a member of the High elf discord was told personally by Ion himself that they will not be in BfA but that it doesn't mean they will never be in wow ever.

[Ignaz]

Ok, let me try explain what he means or at least what i'm understanding from it. This game has suffered a lot of changes on appearances, even Sylvanas character was a night elf that later was a bloody eyes with normal belf model, then it's a unique model.

Original High Elves, could have a original look, but as you have seen high elves/blood elves with the same appearance and just differentiate them from the eyes, and even on the game, they are exactly like blood elves with different colored eyes. But if blizzard did a general change, to High elves, and explained that blood elves are the ones that got mutated and be who they are, then you would have 2 different elves in terms of looks.

I go a bit further on that and say, that High elves could evolve, as night elves evolved into so many other elves. Why stopping now anyway? They have a big "family".
So, the blood elves, got mutated, and that's it, like, with fel exposure, for me it would make sense for them to not evolve anymore, cause they entered in contact with fel and god knows what it can do. Maybe even prevent them from evolving anymore. What comes from blood elves in terms of evolving now, it's always related to dark/fel/or at most recent, void.

I mean, look at this big "happy family", coming from night elves:



Most funny part is how they all still exist tho. And so, High Elves as we know could still exist, but some could evolve, just like the Night Elves and Nightborne.

Even more funny is that, ancient elves still are alive, and all other evolved elves are too alive.

= High elves could evolve, and still be known as the high elves that are similar to blood elves. But playable could have different appearances.
Depending on what or where they were exposed to be able to happen this evolution.

you got my idea perfectly

[Shakana]

Which was the whole point if that particular discussion, the physical difference between a High Elf and a Blood Elf. Aside from eye color, there is none.

Exactly why this discussion keeps going also, it's because they are nothing alike besides that same physical copy. They stand on different values, do different things, and they would like to never even be related ever after what blood elves have turned into. They despise them.

If this never happened, this division, you would atm have probably just high elves, or just blood elves. This division makes a whole lot of a difference. And triggers a lot of discussion.

If this never happened, this thread wouldn't even exist too.

So you see the problem here? If the high elves have stayed who they are or ALL of them have turned into blood elves, then yes, you could have just say that "you have high elves on horde".

[Paraka]

It's fine to stand against my ideas or my suggestions, after all it's suggestions. And creativity running through my veins, and i'm sharing with "the world" (MMO champion in this case).

If there's something i'm not, is self centered. I can see other's stances, and prisms. I can see yours, and i still will be able to tell you mine.

Not arguing in a bad way at all. We are having a good discussion. Don't worry about it.

As i think the game has many loose ends about elves. And them being on the game as evolution kept going, and basically immortal, for thousand years, to me just gives me the idea, that the evolution is something still on the table, regardless of what idea they come up with to make that happen.

I feel like we're starting to misunderstand each other here. Likely translation of how things are responded to. If you're reading me as abrasive, don't, most my responses are pretty monotone. Think of me as Data responding to ya if it helps.

That being said, I want to make one thing clear; although I am pretty stoic on being pretty anti-elf anything (even NPC), I am not here because I want to ride the dream devouring train. I am more of a "I don't want Blizzard to do more stupid shit" type of opposition.

I am not opposing you cause you're attempting to be creative, it's more pointing out the flaws. As I detailed, you may need to back up the dream idea of yours if you wish to stick by it and share it. There isn't any current examples of changes so drastically that the race entirely didn't change.

I am one who advocated for Fel Orcs before the Mag'har were a thing. Cause of the cultural, and visual differences. I had much to back that. Such as the fact we have done NOTHING in Outland, some Fel Orc Light models showed up in WoD as well. Then came Draenor and squatted all about my idea. I conceded my loss here. Just as an example.

Take the example of the VE I gave you; Their physiology remains the same overall same some influence to their wellbeing because what they dabble in. The change is drastic enough to basically change their entire culture surrounding them. Their own architecture (the little they have) bares not much of their old politics and beliefs. And that's from a race that was changed almost instantly.

This information, coupled with the fact VE are birthed from Blood Elf origins, suggest that Blizzard has no plans to justify the HE, and there is fewer of them to even warrant a "fraction" to become VE. Spells much of how Blizzard sees it to this day.

Up until BfA, I was pretty much a non-believer of the HE addition. For the clear responses made even here. However, with the addition of VE, their popularity and the Wildhammers being a visual option in Shadowlands, this changed my opinion a bit. I do think HE may come in some form, but as set options in the VE customization. There will not be an entire "pure bred" HE option, as they still need to show they are VE naturally, but them getting more HE options are more or less likely mid-way through 9.0.

[Aldo Hawk]

Well i have basically been here all day talking about giving high elves a nozdormu customization faces and body and stances. I just love it so much.
And for me, it would be the thing, no doubt it would.

I guess you have been reading some stuff, so probably you have read that already.
But then the void elves would need to be changed too. Init?

It ends up being a bit complexed. No wonder why blizzard can't decide what to do with High Elves and made Void Elves instead lol.
But, if they presented high elves instead of void elves, then we wouldn't have such a big discussion, as their excuse was that minority of high elves have survived.

Oh yeah, I have found one of the posts where I mention what I was talking about: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post51445261

Simply put: The model was created for both Blood elves and High elves at the same time, obviously focusing on Blood elves because they were going to be the playable group, with minor changes to the High elves to better portray the lore. A sign of this can be seen on some of the High elf eyes that still maintain the green glow of the Blood elves due to a lack of revision.

Some changes could be done in a retroactive way, as in a way of better portraying how the High elves didn't changed from the fel radiation. Nowadays we know that it changed their eye color, and some say that it also slightly darkened their skin. But this could be a way to make High elves look even paler than they are now, maybe add that another thing they didn't got changed was their facial structure or ears, etc... I don't know, with this premise more things could be done. Maybe they looked slightly bulkier and fel made the Blood elves look slimer (AKA exactly as how we know them today) or the exact contrary.

And that mixed with some extra customization in relation of High elves wearing distinctive marks on their bodies such as certain paintings, jewelry, hairstyles, or whatever, and the fact that they would definitely come with new voicelines and racials and some different classes... It could do for a pretty good work I think.

I know it isn't perfect, but I like to think it's creative.

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It's a plot hole. I don't think Blizzard developers have studied genetics or medicine to integrate these concepts into their story. they didn't even integrate basic concepts like species and race correctly (for Blizzard the word race encompasses the concept of spice and race at the same time)


What is the physiological difference between healthy twins?


Again, we don't know if they are talking about species or races. According to Blizzard standards, a minimal phenotypic change (another skin color or different horns) is enough to convert an individual belonging to one race to another (e.g. allied races). BE have those phenotypic changes (obviously not the horns). remember that HE have more pale skin and their hair tones are usually pale too, instead BE has more tanned skin besides having another variety of hair colors, plus their green and golden eyes ( the two mutations I mentioned earlier).


I do not think it is necessary to discuss the different political and cultural positions between both sides. We already know and agree that there are differences

I want to just point out that the word 'species' is used in the Warcraft movie, and it felt strange to hear, since the majority of the players are more accustomed to heard the word 'race' for these things, with the wild meaning it was within Warcraft.

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My mistake then. I have no idea where that claim comes from.

Yeah, no problem, this thread is kind of a shitshow and everyone has their hands on the grip.

[Shakana]

I feel like we're starting to misunderstand each other here. Likely translation of how things are responded to. If you're reading me as abrasive, don't, most my responses are pretty monotone. Think of me as Data responding to ya if it helps.

That being said, I want to make one thing clear; although I am pretty stoic on being pretty anti-elf anything (even NPC), I am not here because I want to ride the dream devouring train. I am more of a "I don't want Blizzard to do more stupid shit" type of opposition.

I am not opposing you cause you're attempting to be creative, it's more pointing out the flaws. As I detailed, you may need to back up the dream idea of yours if you wish to stick by it and share it. There isn't any current examples of changes so drastically that the race entirely didn't change.

I am one who advocated for Fel Orcs before the Mag'har were a thing. Cause of the cultural, and visual differences. I had much to back that. Such as the fact we have done NOTHING in Outland, some Fel Orc Light models showed up in WoD as well. Then came Draenor and squatted all about my idea. I conceded my loss here. Just as an example.

Take the example of the VE I gave you; Their physiology remains the same overall same some influence to their wellbeing because what they dabble in. The change is drastic enough to basically change their entire culture surrounding them. Their own architecture (the little they have) bares not much of their old politics and beliefs. And that's from a race that was changed almost instantly.

This information, coupled with the fact VE are birthed from Blood Elf origins, suggest that Blizzard has no plans to justify the HE, and there is fewer of them to even warrant a "fraction" to become VE. Spells much of how Blizzard sees it to this day.

Up until BfA, I was pretty much a non-believer of the HE addition. For the clear responses made even here. However, with the addition of VE, their popularity and the Wildhammers being a visual option in Shadowlands, this changed my opinion a bit. I do think HE may come in some form, but as set options in the VE customization. There will not be an entire "pure bred" HE option, as they still need to show they are VE naturally, but them getting more HE options are more or less likely mid-way through 9.0.

I have been on loads of different sides. I was no-more-elves side. I was on "make different elves" side, later i was on "make high elf instead of void elf" side, then i was on "void elves are added so no need to high elves now" side, then i said "no more blood elves look alike" and now i'm standing on "i don't mind high elves, i just don't want them to look like another copy of blood elves". But if this is what we have, because you can't change them in any way, then what can i say?

I come up with this ideas of changing, by evolving, since they followed different paths.
What this thing they could be turned into then maybe could also take away what they mean now for others, then they wouldn't be the same either.
I gave also the neutral factions High Elf idea. But they have no motive to join horde. They are also with hatred for the blood elves on their hearts.

So in your mind, they would just add High elf blue eyes customization to blood elves? As the Wildhammer?

I think nothing i look at, can even dissipate the different logistics of each BE and HE. What even would be the explanation for Blood Elves that have the name blood elves and green eyes with different politics to have the blue eyed customization? You see, it's just hard to come up with something we want in game but we don't know how to implement it. You need to really just made up something else. They literally cannot be High elves anymore, that alone would do such a damage in the lore.

I don't know if i can explain better than this, tbh. I'm also feeling i'm also repeating myself so much now, that i can't just keep explaining my point of view so much repeatedly if others don't understand. You're basically saying for me to make a design and a story, when i just had the idea today and didn't even have time to think properly about it to make a full on story to tell you.

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If we were cursed into sticking with the seemingly logical path of Kai a Mulgore Tauren should never receive any kind of blessing from Cenarius, as that would be a cruel way of creating a personality disorder or something...

Highmountain Tauren are just Tauren that got their antlers as heritage from their common ancestor, Huln Highmountain. A Tauren from Mulgore can also be blessed by Cenarius and get that physical change. Is that going to make them change their roots as Tauren from Mulgore to Tauren from Highmountain?

Of course not, Highmountain Tauren are just another kind of Tauren, not that far away from their cousins from Kalimdor even in culture if you ask me, they just had a different environment and different actors in their story, however it's a pretty much classical Tauren story. The Warhorn tribe would have been much more different, and they also align very well with a Mulgore counterpart, the Grimtotem.

Now THAT is enough for an Allied race, a -comparatively- small aesthetic feature that could or could not be replicated, but not necessarily being something an already playable race would necessarily go after, as face painting, like Highmountain Tauren have while Mulgore Tauren don't (would be nice for them to also have in my opinion).

We have the High elves, not affected by Fel which just by that fact could totally be physically modified in any sort of way through a retroactive revision. And we also have the fact that they are not connected to the Sunwell in the same way, given they have never harmonized with the essence of M'uru, resulting on not being able to use the light energies of the Sunwell. That can also be another retroactive revision on their aesthetic. And whatnot, they can also have different physical appearance due to their different relationship with magic and the Sunwell unlike Blood elves. And in a final example, aesthetic differences pushed through a necessity of differentiating from the Blood elves.

As for story goes, they have already differentiated themselves from the Blood elves by living different lives in different places and doing different things with these lives.

Simply put, the only thing that is left for High elves is being revisited to develop on their own concept and/or becoming playable, as they have proven to be more than a valid candidate and if there is a concern about aesthetics, there are ways to go around that without transforming High elves into something that is not a High elf, as Void elves are (And yes, Void elves are a form of High elf, that simply doesn't make them the High elves we are talking about, even if they come from transformed High elves).

Also, food for thought, if the question "Are High elves more plausible than (race you personally don't like and/or is lore unfriendly) for an allied race?" Starts any series of thoughts to still go against the High elves, you should simply quit the discussion as the bias and antagonizing behavior is simply too strong to discuss anything in good faith and/or with any kind of respect to logic and/or the intelligence of others.

Also... Half-Elves a plausible Allied race? Is this some kind of a joke? Is -anyone- aware that Half-Elves are effectively applied to the population argument? Can anyone please cite me all the Half-Elves that existed? And I mean all because they are so few that someone with previous knowledge about sources could bring them in less than two minutes of searching. And I'm asking for ALL OF THEM, EVEN THE DEAD ONES, EVEN THE NON-CANONICAL ONES.

Dammit, this thread has been on hold by anti High elf bias for too long, too damn long, of fucking course it has become cyclical, it's always retorting the same non-ground and inconsequential points against High elves instead of actually -talking- about them and developing new ideas together.

I have to necessarily give my gratitude to @Aucald for putting the time on responding to Kai. However, it's the exact same points me and others have been defending for almost a year, not any point is new, and everyone can take a look and see the results of that. That, as I said in the previous paragraph and many times during the thread's lifetime up to a point, is a downward spiral of inconsequential and non-grounded arguments.

May this could change? I don't know, it would be fantastical, however Kai doesn't seem to follow the philosophy of "Live and let live", which would be very handy because as Doffen pointed out, he is using the thread as some sort of personal blog, capitalizing the discussion in a way that not even much different people on the other side of the argument come anymore, and that's a shame in my book.

Well, at least this thread helped me to polish my English, just go back and look at my earlier posts, damn it's pretty good for someone who didn't had English teachers and didn't learn from regulated education. Goddamn I'm gonna put a pizza in the oven to celebrate.

I don't even know if I want to continue engaging in this thread, I don't even want High elves to play them myself, I'm super happy with my Blood elves, but the simple fact that something so straightforward and asked out of pure love for the game and it's lore is getting such kind of opposition just drags me back in... Though that is enough for me to stay LoL.

This alone is a motive to make them playable. As like "ancestors" allied race. As highmountain and Mag'har.

- - - Updated - - -
@Paraka also excuse me if i'm not having a better understanding of your words, all i see is words atm, in my brain floating. And all of them has HE HE HE HE HE BE BE BE VE VE VE VE. Simply put. Lol

[Paraka]

- a Snip Elf arrived -

Honestly, with the blue eye option debacle; They both technically deserve the option. As both are technically HE of origin in name. But if I had to choose I would go Void Elf, from a gameplay standpoint they don't have Paladins so it would restrict them from such already given option. And from a lore standpoint the Void Elves are actively recruiting High Elf and are within proxy of doing this much more often by faction alone. Which honestly, wouldn't surprise me if Blizzard went this route.

They made Void Elf as the answer to the High Elf demand, cause they didn't want to make another BE, they also do not think canonically there is enough in their lore to make HE considered to begin with. Void Elves answers many design hurdles that Hight Elves hold by sheer nature of them and Blood Elves are literally the same outside politics. The Void Elf culture even shifts to be much more different than the Blood Elves. Blizzard used the Blood Elves as a base on purpose to make these guys your answer.

And honestly, if the people demand more, it will likely come in form of the customization I mentioned earlier.

EDIT: Changed the shorthand.