Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Aldo Hawk]

The tweet actually proves my and Black Goat's point, the Sunwell is cleansing everyone. It doesn't say it's exclusive to Paladins and Priests, just that their connection to the Light make it happen faster. He even says "but others can if it makes sense."

That is YOUR interpretation, and I am not here to discuss whatever someone interprets.

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Yes. It is constantly cleansing. It is purging the fel taint from Blood Elves who abstain from fel magic.

The developers said because of the cleansing of the Sunwell, most (not all) Blood Elves are being cleansed of their fel taint therefore the possibility of golden eyed Blood Elves who are NOT connected to the Light is made possible. You simply saying "No." will not change that. It is WOG.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=732xizkqfZk&t=645

This is not up for debate between you and I. No need to further discuss it, and I won't. Your redundancy does not trump what is said to be canon lore. The Sunwell was cleansed, the fel taint is waning in many of the Blood Elves who are no longer sating themselves via fel crystals. End of discussion.

Not ALL Blood Elves are using fel crystals. If you see someone doing cocaine, that doesn't mean everyone is doing cocaine.

The links you provided explain my remark about developer selectivity regarding green eyes/golden eyes on Blood Elf NPCs. Read your own links, for crying out loud. They made it clear that they are whimsical when it comes to Blood Elf NPCs retaining the green eyes, which explains Lor'themar and Valeera.

I say the same to you, that is the interpretation YOU have gave to it, and it is not what Moorgard explained or what we see in the game.

[Manariel]

With WOD i'm not surprised, but with the introduction of the NB to the Horde -and, in general-, the BE also went to another chapter as the "guys who used to be afflicted", i mean... that's the whole connection between the NB and the BEs.

What i find interesting is a small difference bettwen the past BEs and the new VEs, is that the BEs did it for the sake of survival (at the start at least) but the VEs did it for the sake of knowledge and control, that alone put them in a really different category, even more that the energy they interact with is more dangerous, making the VEs that dive into that energy fools or brave soldiers that will fight the abyss

Maybe you're right. But the 8.3 on the PTR and Blizzard track records aren't exactly making me trust them to not use VE as cheap recolored BE.

[Black Goat]

That is YOUR interpretation, and I am not here to discuss whatever someone interprets.

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I say the same to you, that is the interpretation YOU have gave to it, and it is not what Moorgard explained or what we see in the game.

No. We're not discussing interpretations. We're discussing in-game events that occurred that are affecting the lore. You can lie if you'd like, but people see right through it.

It is in the game. Did you watch the video I posted? It is not my subjective perception of events. I see it in the game daily. It was explained in the game. And lastly, the game developers have said it and I have provided an undeniable Blizzard source for the official statement. I presume you're willfully ignoring the obvious fact because you're wrong and too proud to admit it.


-The defeat of The Deceiver and Anveena's sacrifice cleansed the Sunwell.
-M'uru's heart/spark is infused into the Sunwell, causing it to be a mix of Light/Arcane magic instead of pure Arcane
-The developers state that the cleansing and the infusion is giving Blood Elves the ability to have golden eyes again, not green or blue
-The developers state that those connected to the Light may undergo the changes more quickly because of their deeper connection to the Light
-The developers state that ALL BLOOD ELVES are being affected by this, even Blood Elf Warlocks (as the video suggested, exceptions obviously apply because I can critically think like that)
-The game allows Blood Elf characters to have golden eyes

But...

-Aldo Hawk says it's not in the game - Wrong
-Aldo Hawk says we misinterpret the developers despite their very distinct words - Wrong
-Aldo Hawk says that only Light users can have golden eyes - Wrong
-Aldo Hawk says "we" misinterpret the information, and he doesn't, yet provides no supporting official information - Low effort

Hm... I wonder who I should believe.

I think for all who read this exchange, it is abundantly clear who is misinterpreting very PLAIN information.

[Timester]

That is YOUR interpretation, and I am not here to discuss whatever someone interprets.

And your interpretation is the correct one, that's it?


"For players, we intentionally didn't restrict which classes can have golden eyes. Whatever story you want to make for your character's eye color, more power to you.

For NPCs, we will be selective. Priests & paladins are more likely to have them, but others can if it makes sense."


Can't honestly see how can the devs' words be interpreted anything else but that what they said. That all the players can have golden eyes and for NPCs, they will be selective. Which is exactly the opposite of what you affirmed before, that only Paladins and Priests will have them.

Even the video have the devs saying exactly the same thing.

[Astranea]

...snip back to the discussion about the 'high elf' customization options for the night elves...

a ton of pink skin yes not "white" human skin like blood elves, they don't have human/blood elf color;

I heard you, I’ve been trying to look things up, and I have a question for you. Do I get it wrong (wowiki?) that if it was the distance from the Well of Eternity to change the color of skin and hair of the Highborne, slowly turning them pale even before they established the Sunwell?

Became if this is true, then it could have happened to the night elves of this day... and if not, at the very least it should have happened to other Highborne... I am talking about the Shen'dralar for instance. Are you familiar with them? Just asking, because I was not admittedly, not having played Classic, and just discovered them.

But then again as some of the current pink skins for the night elves pretty nice already in my opinion.

i don't remember saying they can't get hair color tough

I may have mistakenly assumed it fell under your 'forget about all the non-existent options you said' comment.

like i said, most people on this threads are clearly adamant and only want "alliance high elves" they don't care much about a compromise

Oh, might be... and you are certainly entitled to your own opinion! I have not been following this thread SO much, only recently discovered it after all... and I guess I am not such a hard core fan, although I like the idea.

So let me try to find another silly compromise... just as a game, between you and me, to see if there's a compromise that can be found and would make sense to someone who objects to the idea of Alliance High Elves.

I am thinking about the Shen’dralar Highborne elves, which I mentioned earlier.

If I remember correctly these were Highborne who did not live in Zin-Azshari, and remained isolated and secluded to the point that they were never exiled from Kalimdor and did not become high elves / blood elves? Yet, they eventually returned and are currently in charge of training their new mages. Which is somewhat amusing, considering their intriguing whereabouts such as the enslavement of a great demon to harvest magic energy. (Night Elf warlocks, hehe)

As far as I know, aside from Queen Azshara having a special skin, so far all Highborne have always simply used the night elf model… yet it would be nice if they could be given a distinct trait to be recognized as such, such as, maybe, some kind of different ears, possibly just a bit shorter or tilted a bit upwards… like the ears used by the Nightborne? That could be dismissed as a consequence to inbreeding, and the rest of the model would not have to change a bit. This way, they would also be coherent to the Nightborne, who also were Highborne to start with if I remember right.

So without breaking the lore, one could possibly have a
Highborne customizations for the Night Elves:

• same character model as the night elves
• choice of gold / white glowing eyes (already in game for males / females)
• choice of ears tilted slightly upwards like the Nightborne
• (optional) lighter skin tone / natural hair colors (due to withdrawal from Well of Eternity?)

These would NOT AT ALL be Alliance High Elves... they already are in game, simply listed as HIGHBORNE descendants who rejoined the night elves and restarted training them in the arcane arts.

Yet they could be somehow considered a “missing link” in the Night Elf to High Elf evolution to come from some of their brothers and sisters.

Obviously, it would need to be set in stone, and then Blizzard would have to change the ears of all Highborne characters along the way too... but imagine being able to seperate the Highborne from the Night Elves when you roam through groups of Night Elves... while still keeping separated from the High / Blood Elves...

I would love that, and would instantly switch my night elf character to such customizations.

[Strippling]

-Both BE and VE dabble with dangerous and volatile energies (the Fel/the Void) and the first use of the VE in something not Faction War related is... them falling victim to the corruptive influence of the Void, just like several minor BE NPC have been made evil because they went mad with power - something which, to my knowledge, never happened to the HE

The high elves at Quel'Lithien Lodge turned into Wretched after they discovered and abused a source of seductive energy discovered by Ranger Lord Hawkspear.

Both BE and VE are seen acting in very dubious ways but handwave it away because it's for some sort of greater good

Killing BE civilians during the purge of Dalaran was "handwaved" away because it was for some sort of greater good.

Also, the term dubious can be used to describe someone who is "not to be relied upon"... which in reality is the perfect phrase to describe alliance aligned high elves. They abandoned their people in their greatest time of need (ie. rebuilding after the destruction Arthas wrought) simply because they preferred human potential. What makes matters worse is that humans tried to execute their kin just prior, yet they chose humans over kin. High elves are just as, if not more, dubious than BE or VE... they simply "handwave" their actions away.

For all intent and purpose, VE are copy-pasted BE. They require far less work from Blizzard to differenciate them from the BE, because they can be used in the exact same way. Want an NPC going mad with power ? Use a BE or a VE, it won't make much difference in the end. And it really saddens me to say that, because I like the VE. But they are far closer to the BE than the HE are, nowadays.

100% wrong. Blizzard actually had to put work in to differentiate VE from BE. It's why they very intentionally chose VE over HE. HE would require no work and would offer no differentiation whatsoever to BE... hence why Blizzard never went down the route of VE.

[Maxilian]

VEs delved into the Void in order to better protect Silvermoon. They figured they could use Darkhan's notes/book for better protecting their home.

So same as for survival I'd say. It wasn't simply for knowledge/control.

That may have been their initial reason, but in the end, they didn't need it to survive, they didn't had the NEED to do that, unlike the Blood Elves that had a NEED to consume magic, so they just wanted POWER to better protect Silvermoon, regardless if its POWER or NEED, it doesn't make one good or the other evil, is just another reason to do stuff

[DeicideUH]

Small news: 8.3 PTR updated, new eye glow is in (but apparently it’s not totally finished yet).

Instead of flashlights in front of their eyes, characters have glowing eye textures.

But when I try to see NPC skins in the Wowhead dressing room, the blood elf green eye texture is still present over high elf and dark ranger skins. I’m not sure if it’s because those textures are missing or a problem with the viewer, but this means one thing:

The update to separate skin color from eye color is already in, at least for some races. (But the option to do so is not available for players, just to clarify).

[Maxilian]

Maybe you're right. But the 8.3 on the PTR and Blizzard track records aren't exactly making me trust them to not use VE as cheap recolored BE.

I think VE will become what BE used to be, that may be good, that may be bad, but sadly, the VE do have the whole stigma of being easier to corrupt (they are part way there), and that's also part of their whole theme, that constant fight to remain in control and/or sane

[Doffen]

These beard should have been a customisation option for males. I really believe taht it would help. Then, nightborne males would look less like night elves.
I wish they used more flying elements and magic runes for that heritage armor. That's how I would design it.

Alas, they didn't get the same love as Kul Tirans. Either in model and their armor.

That looks good yeah, those shoulders are just magnificent. More magic runes is something I am a big fan of. Wish they did that to more items, so hoping they do justice to some of the new sets we get in Shadowlands.

[Aldo Hawk]

No. We're not discussing interpretations. We're discussing in-game events that occurred that are affecting the lore. You can lie if you'd like, but people see right through it.

It is in the game. Did you watch the video I posted? It is not my subjective perception of events. I see it in the game daily. It was explained in the game. And lastly, the game developers have said it and I have provided an undeniable Blizzard source for the official statement. I presume you're willfully ignoring the obvious fact because you're wrong and too proud to admit it.


-The defeat of The Deceiver and Anveena's sacrifice cleansed the Sunwell.
-M'uru's heart/spark is infused into the Sunwell, causing it to be a mix of Light/Arcane magic instead of pure Arcane
-The developers state that the cleansing and the infusion is giving Blood Elves the ability to have golden eyes again, not green or blue
-The developers state that those connected to the Light may undergo the changes more quickly because of their deeper connection to the Light
-The developers state that ALL BLOOD ELVES are being affected by this, even Blood Elf Warlocks (as the video suggested, exceptions obviously apply because I can critically think like that)
-The game allows Blood Elf characters to have golden eyes

But...

-Aldo Hawk says it's not in the game - Wrong
-Aldo Hawk says we misinterpret the developers despite their very distinct words - Wrong
-Aldo Hawk says that only Light users can have golden eyes - Wrong
-Aldo Hawk says "we" misinterpret the information, and he doesn't, yet provides no supporting official information - Low effort

Hm... I wonder who I should believe.

I think for all who read this exchange, it is abundantly clear who is misinterpreting very PLAIN information.

I honestly don't know what you are on about but one can feel the rage put on these words, I suggest you to calm down and write another response less filled with vitriol.

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And your interpretation is the correct one, that's it?

If we are going by this, then apply it also to you.

"For players, we intentionally didn't restrict which classes can have golden eyes. Whatever story you want to make for your character's eye color, more power to you.

For NPCs, we will be selective. Priests & paladins are more likely to have them, but others can if it makes sense."


Can't honestly see how can the devs' words be interpreted anything else but that what they said. That all the players can have golden eyes and for NPCs, they will be selective. Which is exactly the opposite of what you affirmed before, that only Paladins and Priests will have them.

Even the video have the devs saying exactly the same thing.

Did I fucking denied ANY of this at any given point in time?

As I said, it's your personal interpretation, and I am not here to discuss what someone interprets from the lore.

[protip]

No, I just say that the title of that article has nothing to do with its content, and that the title is wrong. they use the physiological differences between twins (error) instead of using the genetic differences (in its genetic material): as a population of `` homozygous twins '' and another of `` heterozygous twins '' (the difference to which they refrain) just to prove the function of a gene
and a doctor can make an erroneous diagnosis. We are not perfect. There are many articles in the area of health (especially nutrition) that are flatly wrong

if you talk about members of the same species and if the physiological principles of each species are well established.
e.g. Dogs can't eat chocolate because they don't produce the enzyme that drains their composition, we humans can synthesize the enzyme. Can you tell me such a physiological difference between humans and elves in the game?

https://books.google.es/books?hl=es&...iology&f=false
Here you have a book on human physiology, you can translocate many of those principles described in the first pages as general concepts.
I recommend Ganong of human physiology, it is easier to understand.

What differences? and which study?

They say they are physiologically the same, good. Tell me now, what is the physiological difference between HE and Humans? and why can they procreate hybrids?

Good luck on your medical degree!

Still though, there are multiple definitions of words, and you said yourself that the definition you've provided doesn't make sense in the context it was used. The obvious implication of that is that Blizzard is using a definition that does make sense, specifically the one that I described and provided references for. Even doctors use that word in the manner I have described, which was the significance of the article that I linked. We can be furious at people who say things like "I could care less" or "irregardless," but the reality is that saying either one of those communicates the message that the speaker intended, because it is well known what their intentions are. Physiology is only different in the fact that its misuse, as you might characterize it, is actually a result of the fact that "physiology and anatomy cannot easily be separated in a scientific way" rather than a simple misunderstanding. No one, even the authors of physiology textbooks, has the authority to invalidate that usage of language in general.

you are telling me that the changes in the models have been canonized by lore, I tell you that it is not always like that.
e.g. HE with NE model and an expansion later, they magically have their own model. Why could the same not happen to differentiate HE from BE with minimal changes such as posture and facial features?

I don't mind if the Alliance gets something like night elf highborne - a Shen'dralar style high elf, or human based half elf customizations etc. I also don't mind if "breaking the cycle" wasn't total BS and we can cooperate in some capacity. What I don't agree with is the story of the blood elves becoming a story of fel corruption or physical transformation, or duplicate races being added to the game as new content.

In fact, I agree with much of what you say here. That is why I consider that VE were a mistake, since they destroyed the identity of the blood elves in the horde in a certain way.
That is why my request has always been pro-HE but without sacrificing the identity of the blood elves. with ideas like the ones I already expressed (not a massive change necessarily)the idea of the Nozdormu elves or use the same BE mold but with different postures and other features that shares many similarities with blood elves, but it is sufficiently different not to confuse them.

but I also think that the integration of HE as a playable race, just fanned more the flames of that conflict between factions since, further emphasizing the key point of the franchise, because thinking or not they are the same race, HE have always served as carriers of the banner of the alliance and BE as carriers of the banner of the horde.

I also want to point out that, yes, a change in lore can be used to further expand the universe, and this opens up a totally different universe of possibilities (e.g. shadowlands) but they have not always been careful with those changes...

I don't think that Void Elves were responsible for that. As soon as the Sunwell was restored, the one definitive thing that separated blood elves and high elves simply evaporated. I mean, what is a blood elf without mana tap? A high elf that requires slightly more of an infinite resource? The blood elves were freed from the desire to mana tap in the same expansion that they were introduced, so as far as I can tell, the restoration of the Sunwell was a just way to put standard high elves on the Horde.

What about green eyes and tanned skin?

I meant as a justification for a model differentiation. I should've been more clear on that. The extent of the fel taint in Silvermoon is very limited, so if Blizzard claims that there was in fact a physical transformation at the kind of level that separates races, it would be a transformation of the backstory of every blood elf player character. It also does nothing to address the blood elves who were not exposed to fel radiation, like the blue-eyed Sunreavers or other untainted blood elf NPCs.

Claiming that mana tap was the source of that physical transformation is also a direct retcon, and like any other concept to redefine the relationship between high elves and blood elves, it would undermine a key aspect of modern Blood Elf (here a political group) society. Maintaining their homeland and way of life has been a central goal of the Blood Elves. If they are physically transformed, then the blood elf model no longer communicates the legacy of the high elves in the way that it does now. As of right now, they are essentially high elves living in their homeland as they did prior to the Scourge Invasion, except their allies are now the Horde. That model shows their connection to their heritage, which they consider extremely important. Separating them from that legacy visually would be a disservice to the Blood Elves thematically.

[Paraka]

That's not really as big a problem you claim it is. Blizzard could have blood elves be unhappy with Lor'Themar's leadership and the Horde in general and decide to leave. And this isn't headcanon, either. There is a group of elves in Silvermoon who are unhappy with the situation and are speaking out against Lor'themar. Or, at least, there used to be one. I haven't been to Silvermoon in ages.

On top of that, Blizzard could simply create a new community of high elves in a new continent in a new expansion, just like they created a whole community of tauren.

Well, they explained why a small subset of Blood Elves are used, sure. But why did they use THEM and then add the extra context that High Elves are being recruited as well.

Let me ask you this; Why do you think Blizzard felt obligated to use Blood Elves, to be led by a High Elf and recruit more High Elves, as opposed to just using High Elves from the get-go? From that point I don't believe Blizzard sees the same potential in utilizing High Elves in the same capacity you desire. Nowhere the near future in any capacity beyond VE's personal customization.

And honestly, are you saying that you're more than willing to have an expansion releasing with predating High Elves? Would they even -BE- High Elves? Cause according to Blizzard HMT aren't Tauren, they're HMT.

Unless you're lowkey asking for Antler Elves.

[FlubberPuddy]

Small news: 8.3 PTR updated, new eye glow is in (but apparently it’s not totally finished yet).

Instead of flashlights in front of their eyes, characters have glowing eye textures.

But when I try to see NPC skins in the Wowhead dressing room, the blood elf green eye texture is still present over high elf and dark ranger skins. I’m not sure if it’s because those textures are missing or a problem with the viewer, but this means one thing:

The update to separate skin color from eye color is already in, at least for some races. (But the option to do so is not available for players, just to clarify).

I think right now only DK models are the ones with new eye glow (that's all I see on wowhead). Unless you mean on 8.3 PTR every race with glowy eyes is using the new one?

[Ignaz]

Good luck on your medical degree!

thanks

Still though, there are multiple definitions of words, and you said yourself that the definition you've provided doesn't make sense in the context it was used

.
I am referring to the semantic use of the word physiological in an attempt to create a marked equality between two groups in a world where the physiological principles of any of the mortal races have not been established. and the biggest evidence you can see is that you didn't answer any of the questions I asked to you, because you can't get this information, since Blizzard didn't bother to establish any principle.

The obvious implication of that is that Blizzard is using a definition that does make sense

This is where I disagree. as content creator; If I'm going to use a word to explain a fact to the players, I have to be sure that the technicality I will use makes sense. even more if is not from an area in which I am familiar with. that's where the plot holes come out.

specifically the one that I described and provided references for. Even doctors use that word in the manner I have described, which was the significance of the article that I linked.

The article that had a wrong title that had nothing to do with its content?

Physiology is only different in the fact that its misuse, as you might characterize it, is actually a result of the fact that "physiology and anatomy cannot easily be separated in a scientific way" rather than a simple misunderstanding.

what?

No one, even the authors of physiology textbooks, has the authority to invalidate that usage of language in general.

if we refer to the concepts and principles they study and teach; Yes, they can do it. It is their job to teach and correct. It's as if I told you that fel magic is actually made from avocado juice. immediately the player community would correct my mistake.

What I don't agree with is the story of the blood elves becoming a story of fel corruption or physical transformation

it doesn't have to become, it's already a story of fel corruption or physical transformation.

or duplicate races being added to the game as new content.

I think VE already took that train.

I don't think that Void Elves were responsible for that. As soon as the Sunwell was restored, the one definitive thing that separated blood elves and high elves simply evaporated. I mean, what is a blood elf without mana tap? A high elf that requires slightly more of an infinite resource? The blood elves were freed from the desire to mana tap in the same expansion that they were introduced, so as far as I can tell, the restoration of the Sunwell was a just way to put standard high elves on the Horde.

This is another evidence of plot holes. If you mean the addiction that blood elves have was cured, then why do they still need the sunwell?
and even if that were the case, there are still the phenotypic and political differences (not to mention the cultural ones since they have not been explored)
Blizzard took the identity of BE, literally copied it, and put it in the alliance with the VE. VE are BE in culture, history and model; that makes the individuality of blood elves as a group null

Claiming that mana tap was the source of that physical transformation is also a direct retcon, and like any other concept to redefine the relationship between high elves and blood elves, it would undermine a key aspect of modern Blood Elf (here a political group) society. Maintaining their homeland and way of life has been a central goal of the Blood Elves. If they are physically transformed, then the blood elf model no longer communicates the legacy of the high elves in the way that it does now. As of right now, they are essentially high elves living in their homeland as they did prior to the Scourge Invasion, except their allies are now the Horde. That model shows their connection to their heritage, which they consider extremely important. Separating them from that legacy visually would be a disservice to the Blood Elves thematically.

Nobody is talking about giving BE a new model

[DeicideUH]

I think right now only DK models are the ones with new eye glow (that's all I see on wowhead). Unless you mean on 8.3 PTR every race with glowy eyes is using the new one?

I checked the elf races in the wowhead dressing room and found out that eye color is not directly tied to skin anymore. You can check it by enabling NPC options and going to high elf or dark ranger skins. Also, male night elves eye textures are not all ready, and night warrior/dark ranger eye textures are missing. Before, the eye texture was part of the skin.

Also, I'm not sure, but it seems night elf male eyes are slightly bigger now. Before, they were very squinted, but it was hard to notice due to the flashlight glow in front of them. It was very noticeable in night warrior skin.

[Ielenia]

Well, they explained why a small subset of Blood Elves are used, sure. But why did they use THEM and then add the extra context that High Elves are being recruited as well.

Let me ask you this; Why do you think Blizzard felt obligated to use Blood Elves, to be led by a High Elf and recruit more High Elves, as opposed to just using High Elves from the get-go?

I have no idea what Blizzard was smoking, injecting AND inhaling on the day they decided the void elves' background.

I see absolutely no logical reason to use blood elves over high elves as the origin for the void elves considering the incredible demand for high elves since... I don't know, vanilla WoW?

And honestly, are you saying that you're more than willing to have an expansion releasing with predating High Elves? Would they even -BE- High Elves? Cause according to Blizzard HMT aren't Tauren, they're HMT.

But they're still tauren. Highmountain tauren differ from the Kalimdor tauren a little in culture (their love for flying) and in their physical appearance (the blessing from Cenarius). If Blizzard, in a new expansion, created a new continent in which lived a group of high elves, with no physical distinction from the high elves from the EK, and still the same culture, they'd be high elves, wouldn't they?

[matrix123mko]

That looks good yeah, those shoulders are just magnificent. More magic runes is something I am a big fan of. Wish they did that to more items, so hoping they do justice to some of the new sets we get in Shadowlands.

I was dissappointed that of all the nightborne themed sets in Legion none of them had runes. At least they could have had more fun with heritage armor.

[Manariel]

The high elves at Quel'Lithien Lodge turned into Wretched after they discovered and abused a source of seductive energy discovered by Ranger Lord Hawkspear.

That's right, even if I could argue that the average turned evil BE differ in the way it's portrayed : they seek more power to themselves when the ones in Quel'Lithien just tried to survive and fucked it up. But now that I think about it... why did they become Wretched ? After all, by the end of TBC, they should also benefit from the radiance of the restaured Sunwell and shouldn't have needed those artifacts to satiate their hunger for mana. Perhaps it happened during TBC ?

Killing BE civilians during the purge of Dalaran was "handwaved" away because it was for some sort of greater good.

Also, the term dubious can be used to describe someone who is "not to be relied upon"... which in reality is the perfect phrase to describe alliance aligned high elves. They abandoned their people in their greatest time of need (ie. rebuilding after the destruction Arthas wrought) simply because they preferred human potential. What makes matters worse is that humans tried to execute their kin just prior, yet they chose humans over kin. High elves are just as, if not more, dubious than BE or VE... they simply "handwave" their actions away.

The Sunreavers had proven to be a terorrist organization abusing the neutrality of Dalaran. They were punished accordingly. There is nothing to handwave, like with Taurajo. This is what happens to traitors in time of war. The Silver Covenant acted exactly as it should have, removing known danfers from the city, ensuring that they couldn't steal more artifacts of power to give to Garrosh.

Also, yeah, High Elves aren't dubious at all precisely because they chose the Alliance over their country. They saw the rot which existed in Quel'thalas even before the Scourge came in, and decided that they would rahter side with people with similar values, instead of letting blood decide for themselves where they should be. That's why they aren't dubious at all for me. They are heroic figures.

100% wrong. Blizzard actually had to put work in to differentiate VE from BE. It's why they very intentionally chose VE over HE. HE would require no work and would offer no differentiation whatsoever to BE... hence why Blizzard never went down the route of VE.

No. Blizzard recolored the Blood Elves and has already started using the Void Elves exactly like it has used Blood Elves before. High Elves wouldn't be able to be used in situation which are basically "went mad with power because he/she wanted more of it". Blood Elves do that all the time, and now Void Elves do exactly the same. Playable High Elves would actually have forced Blizzard to use Thalassian Elves in a very different way. it required far more work than just tackle some purple on a Blood Elf and call it a day.

But as you and other demonstrate, superfial difference matters more for the anti-HE crowd than significant but less visible difference. Which is just sad. But also why I and other will keep asking Blizzard to make high Elves playable. Because, if they could change the Zandalari models 3,5 times (the Vanilla one, the MoP one and the Isle of Thunder one, then BfA) then they can do the same for High Elves and just say "They were always like this".

[Aldo Hawk]

That's right, even if I could argue that the average turned evil BE differ in the way it's portrayed : they seek more power to themselves when the ones in Quel'Lithien just tried to survive and fucked it up. But now that I think about it... why did they become Wretched ? After all, by the end of TBC, they should also benefit from the radiance of the restaured Sunwell and shouldn't have needed those artifacts to satiate their hunger for mana. Perhaps it happened during TBC ?

Yeah, it's kinda odd, since the Quel'lithien elves were visited by Lor'themar in a book after the Sunwell got reignited.

So no, it happened after TbC.