Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[xxcloud417xx]

Wasn't his argument that people see an NPC race on their side and want to play it (whether it makes sense or not)? People have been asking for undead elves and Dark Ranges for as long as people have been asking for High Elves. You provided an example that makes his point.

The Argument is that Horde just get what we want, when we don't. Sure there are people who will ask for Dark Rangers, but it likely won't happen. He is also implying that the Horde doesn't have that, when we do.

My point is, his argument is invalid because he's trying to justify High Elves by saying "they are an NPC and we should have them." Well that's not the case, by that logic, we should have Dark Rangers for the Horde then, but logically speaking we won't.

[Rhlor]

blue eyes next customization blood elves?

this said Ion in the interview
When deciding on Allied Races, why did you choose Void Elves instead of High Elves?
Void Elves are basically High Elves. They have a slightly different backstory but if you want a tall, blonde hair elf, that's a Blood Elf. We just met Alleria and got the backstory of the Void Elf and they wanted to add a race that looked a little like the Blood Elf and Void Elves fit -- eye color isn't the same, maybe contact lens in the future.

taking into account that there are many blood elves NPCs with blue eyes and that we can already choose the golden eyes in the beta it would be possible that in the future we have blue eyes

[Shinkishi]

The Argument is that Horde just get what we want, when we don't. Sure there are people who will ask for Dark Rangers, but it likely won't happen. He is also implying that the Horde doesn't have that, when we do.

My point is, his argument is invalid because he's trying to justify High Elves by saying "they are an NPC and we should have them." Well that's not the case, by that logic, we should have Dark Rangers for the Horde then, but logically speaking we won't.

All he said was that if the Horde had a race like that, people would want it, just like the Alliance does. He didn't say the Horde just gets what they want in that statement, I think you just read that into it. The bit about Goblins was just another example of a people seeing an NPC race that they want and not getting it (until they do).

[corebit]

Yeeah suure when blizz said

No horde and alliance on pvp realms

No classic/vanilla servers

No wellll ALOT of thingsn when a company has a history of changing their mind their isn't much stopping this kind of threadd/discussion

Sure, you can continue making High Elf threads for the next 14 years. Maaaaybe then they will reconsider it.

Also you conveniently omit the things Blizzard hasn't budged on. You think your argument is somehow proof that Blizzard is caving left and right to whatever demand the forums fancy, but it doesn't.

blue eyes next customization blood elves?

Pretty much. The "contact lenses" wording only makes sense if blood elves get blue eyes. And then the high elf camp will die from too much salt intake.

[Goldielocks]

Those things were discussed to death, much harder than High Elves were or likely will be. Horde/Alliance on the same server was a huge thing and the detractors had the same argument about it blurring the line between factions. Classic servers damaging the game itself was one of the biggest points for those against it. Another one was Alliance getting Shaman and Horde getting Paladin. Maybe you weren't there or just didn't participate in them? The same argument you're making now about "dev pride" would be exactly the same if they decided to do a 180 on the elf question.

I don’t know what to tell you. This time, the devs agree with the detractors. It’s reality.

[Shinkishi]

I don’t know what to tell you. This time, the devs agree with the detractors. It’s reality.

Yeah, sure. I'm not one of the ones arguing hard for high elves, to me all they have to say is "we don't want to add playable High Elves to the Alliance" and it's enough (which they pretty much did). Your statement was just nonsense given the previous arguments all had the same elements this one does with the devs on the opposite side.

[Shinkishi]

But didn't they kind of in a way say that?

"Blood Elves are pretty much High Elves"

They don't want to add them because they're already playable. =P

Well yeah, as I said in the very post you quoted.

[xxcloud417xx]

All he said was that if the Horde had a race like that, people would want it, just like the Alliance does. He didn't say the Horde just gets what they want in that statement, I think you just read that into it. The bit about Goblins was just another example of a people seeing an NPC race that they want and not getting it (until they do).

And that's the point "IF" the Horde had a race like that? Well, we do. So, argument falls apart since it was made under the assumption that we don't.

[Rhlor]

Sure, you can continue making High Elf threads for the next 14 years. Maaaaybe then they will reconsider it.

Also you conveniently omit the things Blizzard hasn't budged on. You think your argument is somehow proof that Blizzard is caving left and right to whatever demand the forums fancy, but it doesn't.



Pretty much. The "contact lenses" wording only makes sense if blood elves get blue eyes. And then the high elf camp will die from too much salt intake.

I think it's a possibility I would like my hunter to have blue eyes, my pala will have golden eyes

[Shinkishi]

And that's the point "IF" the Horde had a race like that? Well, we do. So, argument falls apart since it was made under the assumption that we don't.

That's not the crux of the argument. It's not some anti-Horde thing. It's the only argument that's actually air-tight in this whole thing. People see an NPC race that they want to play and ask for it, whatever it is and whatever lore it has.

Oh, sorry. Been a long day. xD

No problem, friend. I hear you on that.

[Goldielocks]

Yeah, sure. I'm not one of the ones arguing hard for high elves, to me all they have to say is "we don't want to add playable High Elves to the Alliance" and it's enough (which they pretty much did). Your statement was just nonsense given the previous arguments all had the same elements this one does with the devs on the opposite side.

Except it wasn’t. Your opinion doesn’t transcend anyone else’s. My arguments were of the side that the Devs agreed to terms they once denied because it hurt their pride no linter, not the game itself.

Different scenario here. Disagree. Agree. It doesn’t matter.

[Ithekro]

Dark Rangers are an NPC in the Horde. Sylvanas has undead Blood Elf models with red eyes, or like Nathanos. Blizzard will likely argue that we can't have them because they're way too few in number and it's basically Sylvanas' personal guard.

Your argument is invalid as hell.

As far as I know there is nothing stopping the Horde from having Undead Elves. There are probably more of them than there are Void Elves, given how many Elves Arthas killed. Plenty of bodies to raise, and elves seem to keep their figure much better than humans in undeath.

Nathanos at least does have a reasonable lore reason to not have that model type be wide spread, but the reasoning for it is only slightly more realistic than the very existence of Void Elves as a playable allied race.

Nathanos was a specific ritual that seeming required a specific live body (or very recently died body perhaps) to have his corrupted soul to inhabit. And it nearly cost Sylvanas one of her precious few Val'kyr. That is slightly more population controlling than what happened to the Void Elves....but only slightly.

[Alixie]

blue eyes next customization blood elves?

this said Ion in the interview
When deciding on Allied Races, why did you choose Void Elves instead of High Elves?
Void Elves are basically High Elves. They have a slightly different backstory but if you want a tall, blonde hair elf, that's a Blood Elf. We just met Alleria and got the backstory of the Void Elf and they wanted to add a race that looked a little like the Blood Elf and Void Elves fit -- eye color isn't the same, maybe contact lens in the future.

taking into account that there are many blood elves NPCs with blue eyes and that we can already choose the golden eyes in the beta it would be possible that in the future we have blue eyes

Time travel, random light forging, chiropractors, and contact lenses. Really, really stupid excuses used to give Horde players lots of extra options for their characters, but they cant let Alliance have more options because that would "break the lore."

Speaking of lore, High and Blood elves are NOT the same. One fraction elected to steal magic and use fel in a quest for power, the other fraction didnt. And Void Elves are NOT High Elves. They were Blood Elves that were kicked out of Silvermoon for studying the void.

[Shinkishi]

Except it wasn’t. Your opinion doesn’t transcend anyone else’s. My arguments were of the side that the Devs agreed to terms they once denied because it hurt their pride no linter, not the game itself.

Different scenario here. Disagree. Agree. It doesn’t matter.

That exact same argument about it hurting the game was made for all of those things that were mentioned. It's the same stupid scenario if you're going from that angle. That's what I'm telling you, I don't care if you want the elves or not.

[Deleted]

Gnomes had Toshley's Station in Blade's Edge. It's a pretty significant chunk of questing in that Zone for Alliance.

(I don't disagree with where you are going with your post... I just wanna give the little fellers their due.)

ah yeah it's been too long i didn't remember properly haha

[Ithekro]

Though, if the Horde gets Undead Elves (and High Elves are still off the table for very dumb reasons), that I propose Spectral Elves for the Alliance. The ones from Azsuna under Prince Farondis.

ah yeah it's been too long i didn't remember properly haha

These days, people leveling probably won't get out there before going to the next expansion's content. Either like they did before the level scaling and go from Nagrand to Northrend, or with level scaling, and avoid Outlands entirely....or go from Nagrand to Mt. Hyjal or the Jade Forest. Few people go to the Blades Edge Mountains by choice in leveling I would think.

[ArchbishopBenedictus]

Yeah reading Ion's response today just pissed me off and I'm not even that desperate for High Elves as a playable Alliance race. It's the same illogical and weak excuse: blood elves are high elves...well no they aren't, one was corrupted by fel energies (it's like saying Mag'har orcs are green orcs); and there are too few high elves...so there are more void elves in a small 'elite crack squad' versus a whole army of high elves in Dalaran?

This video was fantastic at fairly defecating on these arguments against high elves from a great height: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2Sr-sadSk4 If you haven't seen it I highly recommend a watch. Maybe someone with the right contacts could send it to Ion?

[vavlqlw]

Ion could literally make up any reason he wants and you guys would still have to live with it. I guess denial is step 1 though, I'm looking forward to bargaining.

[Syegfryed]

1. The sources are easily available. Look up the Silver Covenant. Void elves are also partially made of High Elves.[

2. Again, the Silver Covenant.

lmao, the silver covenant is a small group of terrorist elves, they are less than Void elves, again, every time they appear is under someone banner, cause they are not a force on their own

3. They do - outside of the obvious anti fel-magic part, but also in character. They were never subjugated to the mana addiction the blood elves suffered.

they don't, fel magic don't exist, and this mana addiction all elves have, you are talking about headcanon

4. High Elves are fundamentally different from Blood Elves, again because of the clear-cut exodus of the High Elves before the whole fel corruption. They still have their ties with the Night Elves, something the Blood Elves have permanently lost.

there is no fel corruption, and they are NOT different, apart from the politcs

5. Personality, when used for character design, means how they're going to express themselves. May it be by their poses, way of talking or aesthetic style. Personality is a thing used in the domain pretty much all the time.

its not something blizzard should care, since you can create your own personality

What actually annoys me is the excuses they use to justify their decision. .

you can dislike the excuses and reasons, but they are right, they are canon

- - - Updated - - -

And now people are in denial again, in the same state we are after blizzcon "ion is a cunt and don't know the lore, I KNOW THE LORE, not him, his reasons? i don't like, so its not true, cause my fanfic and headcanon say so"

"he didn't say they plan now, so they plan in the future, so its totally gonna happens, we need to ask and spam more "

This video was fantastic at fairly defecating on these arguments against high elves from a great height: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2Sr-sadSk4 If you haven't seen it I highly recommend a watch. Maybe someone with the right contacts could send it to Ion?

oh no, this video full of headcanon and bias, can we just stop bringing this up, i cringe every-time

[Psychotrip]

Time travel, random light forging, chiropractors, and contact lenses. Really, really stupid excuses used to give Horde players lots of extra options for their characters, but they cant let Alliance have more options because that would "break the lore."

Speaking of lore, High and Blood elves are NOT the same. One fraction elected to steal magic and use fel in a quest for power, the other fraction didnt. And Void Elves are NOT High Elves. They were Blood Elves that were kicked out of Silvermoon for studying the void.

I think his point was that the vast, vast majority of high elves became blood elves, so the terms are essentially indistinguishable barring a few stragglers in Dalaran and some rangers hanging out in an old lodge.

I do agree Allies need more customization. I'd love for my draenei mage to be a bit less bulky, personally. Night elves need antlers and shit.