Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[matrix123mko]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/High_elf

High Elves were part of Alliance in Vanilla before Blood Elves existed on Horde. Blood Elves only joined Horde in TBC. Therefore High Elves were and are part of the current Alliance.

High Elves were part of the Alliance in Warcraft 3 as well.



https://wow.gamepedia.com/Priest_(Warcraft_III)



https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sorceress_(Warcraft_III)

Since Warcraft 3 is what 5 years before WoW, and we see High Elves on Alliance from the very beginning of WoW it doesn't take much to deduce that these High Elves that stayed with the Alliance of Lordaeron stayed with whatever transitions occurred to the Alliance of today.

The Alliance you are talking about are now the Forsaken.

[Gurluas]

The Alliance you are talking about are now the Forsaken.

Not true, that Alliance was divided. Part of it became Forsaken, part of it remained Scourge, part of it evacuated south (And got murderized by the Forsaken or became Worgen), and another part went to Theramore, and then got evacuated to Stormwind. There's plenty of Human Lordaeronian civilians in Stormwind.

[Katchii]

I'm talking about the ones who did not rename themselves to Blood elves. The lore strongly points to this. High elves are the ones who remained in the Alliance for the most part. The only exception are the lordaeronian High elves who followed Kael and became Blood elves. The rest of the Blood elves are primarily from Silvermoon.

The High elves are ones who are: In Dalaran, Staying in the Lodges, Living in Theramore, Living in Stormwind, Part of the Alliance Expedition and the Silver Covenant.

The ones in Lodges are not part of the Silver Covenant, Quel'lithien was almost completely wiped out, so it's pretty much only Quel'danil. Quel'danil High elves do not use Arcane magic anymore, aren't part of the Silver Covenant but are 100% Alliance aligned.

The Theramore High elves are partially dead. Almost all combatants would have died due to Garrosh's manabomb, with the civilians being evacuated, most likely to Stormwind. The Allerian High elves are strongly Alliance aligned, having fought side by side with the Alliance for many years, and fighting Blood elves when they came to Outland. The Allerian High elves are not directly hostile to Quel'thalas, as we saw Auric Sunchaser being a representative during the Quel'delar event but they're still very much Alliance.

The Dalarani High elves are mostly mages and civilians. Unlike the Silver Covenant they do not really care about the Blood elves and have no problem being neutral with the rest of the city. They're implied to have been citizens of Dalaran for a very long time.

The Stormwind High elves are like the Dalaran High elves, Citizens of Stormwind. They live as proud members of the Alliance and are integrated into the city. Examples are Elsharin and Caledra Dawnbreeze.

The Silver Covenant are sort of an extremist faction led by Vereesa. They're staunch Anti-Blood elf and had no qualms purging them during MOP. They count both mages and rangers, and they're the strongest alliance supporters within the High elf race.

Finally...You have the neutrals, they're mostly in isolated camps or isolated regions. Examples include Captain Thalo'thas Brightsun.
As a whole, the race is very much Alliance, because those who aren't Alliance are either neutral or aren't High elves anymore.

All good and true points, but it still amounts to individuals choosing to fight on behalf of the Alliance because they live in Alliance territories rather than an official High Elf racial allegiance to the Alliance, because there is no centralized High Elf leadership or community, they're all just basically citizens of the Alliance who happen to be High Elves. They're not a "faction" within the Alliance.

The Silver Covenant is a High Elf centric faction within the Alliance, but has several non Elven members as well, and does not speak for all High Elves that reside in the Alliance.

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Not true, that Alliance was divided. Part of it became Forsaken, part of it remained Scourge, part of it evacuated south (And got murderized by the Forsaken or became Worgen), and another part went to Theramore, and then got evacuated to Stormwind. There's plenty of Human Lordaeronian civilians in Stormwind.

You just kind of reiterated the point. That Alliance doesn't exist anymore, the present day Alliance based in Stormwind is not the same Alliance that was based out of Lordaeron and had the allegiance of Quel'thalas during the second war. After the second war, the official Quel'thalas allegiance to the Alliance wasn't really a thing. Sure there were some Elves who remained within the Alliance, who followed Jaina, Vereesa, Alleria or just went to live in Alliance territory, but there was no longer an official racial High Elven allegiance to the Alliance after the second war ended.

The vast majority of Lordaeron became part of the Scourge, and a vast majority of that population became the Forsaken.

[Gurluas]

All good and true points, but it still amounts to individuals choosing to fight on behalf of the Alliance because they live in Alliance territories rather than an official High Elf racial allegiance to the Alliance, because there is no centralized High Elf leadership or community, they're all just basically citizens of the Alliance who happen to be High Elves. They're not a "faction" within the Alliance.

The Silver Covenant is a High Elf centric faction within the Alliance, but has several non Elven members as well, and does not speak for all High Elves that reside in the Alliance.

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You just kind of reiterated the point. That Alliance doesn't exist anymore, the present day Alliance based in Stormwind is not the same Alliance that was based out of Lordaeron and had the allegiance of Quel'thalas during the second war. After the second war, the official Quel'thalas allegiance to the Alliance wasn't really a thing. Sure there were some Elves who remained within the Alliance, who followed Jaina, Vereesa, Alleria or just went to live in Alliance territory, but there was no longer an official racial High Elven allegiance to the Alliance after the second war ended.

The vast majority of Lordaeron became part of the Scourge, and a vast majority of that population became the Forsaken.

Incorrect, the whole thing is...High elves consider themselves separate from Blood elves.
And the remaining High elves are predominantly in the Alliance and are recognized as being so. They're a minor Alliance aligned race just like the Jinyu and Wildhammers. It's not individuals, it's groups, the vast majority are Alliance. Individuals are the neutral ones.

And there's not a single Horde High elf, so once again...High elves ARE Alliance. The ones who are Horde denounced the High elf name and call themselves Blood elves.

[Varx]

Hey guys just checking in, did Blizz implement WoW's 2nd neutral race yet? Man I hope they give us Hordies Ogres to compensate.

[Villager720]

personally?

Just give the current void elves options for tattoos and more normal skin colors.

Why would void elves have Alleria's tattoos and not blood elves? Void elves were blood elves.
Any high elf customizations should also be available to blood elves as they're the same race.

[Katchii]

Incorrect, the whole thing is...High elves consider themselves separate from Blood elves.
And the remaining High elves are predominantly in the Alliance and are recognized as being so. They're a minor Alliance aligned race just like the Jinyu and Wildhammers. It's not individuals, it's groups, the vast majority are Alliance. Individuals are the neutral ones.

And there's not a single Horde High elf, so once again...High elves ARE Alliance. The ones who are Horde denounced the High elf name and call themselves Blood elves.

How is what I said incorrect? The High Elves have no faction, they're just groups of High Elves that are not Horde aligned, with many of them fighting on behalf of the Alliance. ie individuals choosing to group up and fight for a cause they believe in, not a centralized official overarching allegiance to a specific faction out of some military alliance. Unlike the Dwarves, Night Elves, Gnomes, Draenei, Worgen, Humans, Void Elves, Dark Iron Dwarves and soon to be Kul Tirans, they have no centralized leadership, they have no official martial allegiance to the Alliance like typical military allies, they're not a separate Alliance faction/ race, they're just citizens of the Alliance fighting on behalf of the Alliance (for those that do fight for the Alliance).

The only faction that exists that's High Elf centric would be the Silver Covenant, but that's still just a High Elven centric regiment within the Alliance forces, like the 7th Legion, not a High Elf racial faction, even though it is led by Vereesa.

Quel'thalas technically left the Alliance under Anasterian, when he seceded his nation from the Alliance. In the third war they fended for themselves, they were not aligned with the Alliance at this point. so any remnant High Elves that joined the Alliance did so as individuals/ groups of individuals, not a racial/ faction/ national agreement to join the Alliance, more like refugees. Kind of similar to the whole Honduran refugee train heading to America (no politics, just an example), if they end up living in America, Honduras wouldn't be an American ally...the refugees would simply citizens/ residents of the US. Just as the High Elves who are in the Alliance are just citizens of the Alliance nations in which they reside, they're not a centralized military/ nation that is allied with the Alliance.

Also, Blood Elves didn't denounce the High Elf name, they changed their name in remembrance of their fallen comrades. There is a profound difference between denouncing and simply changing. They didn't change their name out of spite of the High Elf moniker as implied by the term "denounced." It is the High Elves who technically denounced the Blood Elf name, as it was the High Elven racial leader at the time, Kael'thas Sunstrider, who made the change official, and those High Elves then chose to abandon their faction for various reasons.

We're arguing semantics at this point. I'm not saying High Elves aren't part of the Alliance, so I'm not sure why you're arguing that point, I'm just saying that there is no centralized High Elf military allegiance to the Alliance like with the other racial factions, the High Elves who fight for the Alliance are basically just citizens who signed up for military service.

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Why would void elves have Alleria's tattoos and not blood elves? Void elves were blood elves.
Any high elf customizations should also be available to blood elves as they're the same race.

100% agreed.

[Toho]

Why would void elves have Alleria's tattoos and not blood elves? Void elves were blood elves.
Any high elf customizations should also be available to blood elves as they're the same race.

In the Void Elf capital there are NPCs named High Elves that seem to be studying void magic.
Your character could be one of those high elves.

Honestly I dont see why people would argue for less features.
Simply put Alleria style void elves would be very cool to have. So why not?
Its just some simple texture customization options.

I dont see why Blood Elves should be denied extra customizations too. They got gold eyes to represent their new connection to the new sunwell. I am sure some blood elves continued their high elf traditions.

[Katchii]

In the Void Elf capital there are NPCs named High Elves that seem to be studying void magic.
Your character could be one of those high elves.

Honestly I dont see why people would argue for less features.
Simply put Alleria style void elves would be very cool to have. So why not?
Its just some simple texture customization options.

The argument is that if Void Elves get it, Blood Elves should get the same options, not that the options shouldn't exist.

[Toho]

The argument is that if Void Elves get it, Blood Elves should get the same options, not that the options shouldn't exist.

Sure. Why not.
Maybe do something similar like Demon Hunters where the tattoo designs differ a little too.

[Zandalariprelate]

Hey guys just checking in, did Blizz implement WoW's 2nd neutral race yet? Man I hope they give us Hordies Ogres to compensate.

Nope as far I know there won't be another neutral race and they are gonna just fill the sloth for the 6 core races

[Varx]

Nope as far I know there won't be another neutral race and they are gonna just fill the sloth for the 6 core races

No chance for more neutral races huh? Oh well so much for Alliance High Elves. At least they can still be thalasian Elves as Velves am i right.

[Fyersing]

How is what I said incorrect? The High Elves have no faction, they're just groups of High Elves that are not Horde aligned, with many of them fighting on behalf of the Alliance. ie individuals choosing to group up and fight for a cause they believe in, not a centralized official overarching allegiance to a specific faction out of some military alliance. Unlike the Dwarves, Night Elves, Gnomes, Draenei, Worgen, Humans, Void Elves, Dark Iron Dwarves and soon to be Kul Tirans, they have no centralized leadership, they have no official martial allegiance to the Alliance like typical military allies, they're not a separate Alliance faction/ race, they're just citizens of the Alliance fighting on behalf of the Alliance (for those that do fight for the Alliance).

The only faction that exists that's High Elf centric would be the Silver Covenant, but that's still just a High Elven centric regiment within the Alliance forces, like the 7th Legion, not a High Elf racial faction, even though it is led by Vereesa.

The bulk of this is, objectively, false.

The High Elves have no faction, they're just groups of High Elves that are not Horde aligned, with many of them fighting on behalf of the Alliance.

The overwhelming majority of all existing High Elves currently exist within the fold of the Silver Covenant. The few scattered remnants that are often cited as being inspirational towards some aesthetic and/or cultural end (i.e. "Highvale Elves") are really the exception, not the rule.

ie individuals choosing to group up and fight for a cause they believe in, not a centralized official overarching allegiance to a specific faction out of some military alliance.

As mentioned above, the majority of all existing High Elves are members of the Silver Covenant. This being the case, and with us understanding that the Silver Covenant is an independent organization based in Dalaran (which has twice been utilized as an adjunctive branch of Dalaran's military), it isn't very accurate to suggest that they're both de-centralized and uncommitted.

They're are quite centralized, especially relative to organizations like the Earthen Ring or the Argent Dawn, and are both officially pledged to the Alliance and officially recognized as an independent body by the self-same Alliance.

Unlike the Dwarves, Night Elves, Gnomes, Draenei, Worgen, Humans, Void Elves, Dark Iron Dwarves and soon to be Kul Tirans, they have no centralized leadership, they have no official martial allegiance to the Alliance like typical military allies, they're not a separate Alliance faction/ race, they're just citizens of the Alliance fighting on behalf of the Alliance (for those that do fight for the Alliance).

This is just your first two sentences, reiterated, so there's nothing new to broach here. It's simply incorrect. I'd advise reading up a bit on the subject matter.

The only faction that exists that's High Elf centric would be the Silver Covenant, but that's still just a High Elven centric regiment within the Alliance forces, like the 7th Legion, not a High Elf racial faction, even though it is led by Vereesa.

All indications suggest that the 7th Legion is directly under the command of the High King of the Alliance, and that the various member-states (i.e. Stormwind, Ironforge, Gnomeregan, Gilneas, etc.) are entirely incapable of commanding members of the 7th Legion for any purpose not specifically condoned by the High King himself. Thus, any 7th Legion enlistee is likely compelled by law to obey any and all commands given to him/her by the High King and expressly forbidden from openly aligning with individual member-states.

Conversely, the Silver Covenant is legally beholden only to Vereesa (and, theoretically, to the leadership of Dalaran). Though it is very likely that Vereesa would ultimately agree with most of the things Anduin might propose, and may well commit to them even if she doesn't agree, her organization has been quite clearly defined as being independently operated and not at all obligated to the whims of the High King. The only thing that would be unique about the Silver Covenant (were they to become the thematic kernel of any future playable High Elves) would be that they don't have any territorial holdings (i.e. no ethnostate, to borrow from the Alt Right's terminology a little)... but this is little different than Void Elves, or Mag'har Orcs, and doesn't really matter to anybody requesting them. I'm sure most people would be more than happy to see Dalaran more-or-less completely "elven-ized".

[Katchii]

The bulk of this is, objectively, false.

If the main point here is that you're holding the Silver Covenant up as the High Elf faction from which an Alliance aligned High Elf might come from, that's fine. But none of what I said is objectively false. The Silver Covenant is a subset of militarized High Elves, they're not a High Elf nation that has pledged their peoples allegiance to the Alliance, they're a group of like minded individuals who are are aligned with the Alliance.

However, if you're going to present the Silver Covenant as THE High Elf faction, then you're correct. Vereesa is it's leader so it does have a somewhat "centralized" leader. I simply don't agree with that because the Silver Covenant is not High Elf exclusive.

Can you provide a source that says that the overwhelming majority of existing High Elves are part of the Silver Covenant? i'm not disagreeing, it would make sense, I just have not found any lore source that outright supports this. Everything I've seen is relatively ambiguous on numbers and just alludes to the remaining High Elves either being in the Silver Covenant, living in Stormwind, living in Dalaran, or in High Elf lodges around the world.

[FlubberPuddy]

The Alliance you are talking about are now the Forsaken.

Yes just disregard that Vanilla wow still has this entry for High Elves: "The high elves are in a state of diaspora. Most reside in human cities like Stormwind, Theramore, or Dalaran. Others live in seclusion in the wild forests, often in hunting lodges such as Farstrider Lodge." "High Priestess Aurora Skycaller, originally found in Northpass Tower helped the Alliance adventurers.."

Regardless of whatever happened to Alliance of Lordaeron, there are still High Elves who stayed within the Alliance nations that we know of today. And that is rooted within having faction loyalty towards the Alliance.

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The argument is that if Void Elves get it, Blood Elves should get the same options, not that the options shouldn't exist.

Sure. Why not.
Maybe do something similar like Demon Hunters where the tattoo designs differ a little too.

While both of you are correct, and indeed more options for everyone all-around would be great. We know this isn't the way Blizzard works. For instance the hairstyles/facial hair customization that Mag'har have didn't go to current greenskin orcs. Same for male VE facial hair (do you really need void to grow a beard/moustache? srsly).

These options remain distinct because it's Blizzard's way of creating more differentiation. I personally don't like it myself, but that is the way they seem to be handling it. Otherwise a lot of options between AR and their very similar counterparts could be shared (HMT markings -> Mulgore Tauren markings, Mag'har hairstyles <-> Green Orcs hairstyles, VE hairstyles/facial hair <-> Blood Elves, etc).

Grom Hellscream for instance sports the same hairstyles from when he was corrupted and not.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

If you do not believe your concerns were drowned out by those driven by aesthetics, I must disagree. When Ion rejected High Elves in the Q and A, he focused on the aesthetic desire of the pro high elf community by saying that if a fair-skinned elf was wanted, the Horde was there. While it maybe perceived as snark, as someone who did read a lot of the feedback on the US and EU forums I am absolutely not surprised that a predominating desire for the aesthetics was what he ended up with.

Remember, you accuse me of generalizing because I apparently focus on the desire for aesthetics over the lore based interpretation. This misinterprets my point. My point is that those seeking High Elves, through their feedback on multiple forums, created the impression that they were primarily driven by aesthetics and that lore considerations were marginalized as a result or seen as a respectable fig-leaf for that aesthetic driven desire.

That's literally what generalizing is, Kai. Taking just one aspect of an argument and present it as a whole. All you are trying to do is try to justify the generalization. Lore related feedback was given, it was visible. That the developers didn't see it only means they didn't care enough to actually look at the whole feedback and instead chose a limited generalization of the whole.

As an absolutely fundamental point of disagreement, the political difference is in no way enough to justify Alliance High Elves as an Allied race.

During some quests of the Cataclysm some of the Grimtotem Tauren aided the Alliance in few quests. They were a group exiled from their home and reviled as traitors. As a hypothetical, imagine if that relationship had deepened a little to the point that the Grimtotem were seen as being in league with the Alliance.

Would you be arguing that the 'political difference' there would be enough to justify a Grimtotem Tauren Alliance Allied race despite the fact they would be culturally, thematically and aesthetically identical to an already playable Horde race? If you believe that political difference is enough, then you must say yes.

Ask me that when the Grimtotem have been part the alliance continuously, through several conflicts and multiple appearances through the years. Because as you present it, it's a very patent false equivalence.

The High Elf fantasy is not predicated on political alignment. The High Elf fantasy is one rooted in expectation from other fantasy universes. Warhammer, Tolkien, Feist. Long lived, pointy eared, almost etheral beings with a talent for magic. The Blood Elf fantasy fulfils every aspect of the High Elf fantasy that matters. The fact that they are members of the Horde does not undermine that nor does the Alliance High Elf membership of the Alliance provide a different experience.

Political alignment will never be enough of a reason. It will never be a strong basis for an Allied race. While it is the foundation of your desire to play a High Elf, it simply doesn't pass muster. A political difference is ultimately an opinion and that does not alter the culturel, aesthetic or theme of a race. A conservative and a labour voters are both still British. A Republican and a Democrat are both still Americans. An Alliance High Elf and a Blood Elf are still the same people. You cannot create racial distinctiveness from a political opinion (nor should anyone try)

The High Elf fantasy I want IS predicated on political alignment. Because I want Warcraft's High Elf fantasy. Please, when someone tells you what they want, and why they want it, at least attempt to act in good faith.

My whole point is that ideology is more relevant to a group identity than an arbitrary grouping by race, in a game about faction War. High Elf ideology stands appart from Blood Elven one, and part of it is because of politics. You miss the point about creating "racial" distinctivenes when I am saying race is not the most relevant. My comments and ideas about aesthetic differentiation are only for a gameplay purpose and so that BE and Horde fans don't cry because "they are giving BE's to the alliance"

Again, that would all be internal and incapable of representation. World of Warcraft is a faction based game and the factions are based on race, not ideology.

Which I have already stated something I disagree with.

The implication is there, but implication literally means that it is suggested without being explicitly stated. I feel Void Elf numbers and presence in the Alliance, as well as the classes available to them,

do not tally with the small group of mage researchers

ambushed by an ethereal. The Void Elves physically converting others interested in their path makes sense. I will concede that without being explicitly stated we cannot be sure, but that goes equally for the idea they CAN'T convert others.

And that's literally headcanoning to make sense of poorly established lore. Not fact. That's the problem.

As argued above, to consider Void Elves as Blood Elves is to deliberately miss the point. They were Blood Elves, just as they were High Elves not so long ago. Yet while Blood Elves are High Elves, Void Elves are not Blood Elves (nor are they High Elves anymore). They are their own thing. Just as Lightforged Draenei are not ordinary Draenei, or Orcs the same as Mag'har Orcs, or Mecha-Gnomes the same as Gnomes. There are differences that justify their existence as a separate group

.

And that is the problem the difference on the "litmus test" we establish to denote differentiation. For you an arbitrary transformation holds more merit because it leads to a different aesthetic. For me, a longer cultural split based on politics and ideology is far more meaningful. I am not deliberately missing the point, I am disagreeing with it. Void Elves are a poor concept because shallowly tried to differentiate though aesthetics with little care of the lore, instead of using it to create something far more meaningful.

It is not precedent, it was an experiment. One that failed. They made a mistake. Just because they made a mistake once is no justification to repeat the error. As for asking for the same treatment, you wish to play a race present on the Horde within the Alliance and their sole difference is to be their ideology. That is exactly the same as the Pandaren, whose saving grace was that both groups were introduced at the same time and not thirteen years apart.

Yeah, precedent is still precedent regardless of your own editorializing of events.

And when I say "not the same treatment" I'm making reference to solutions such as a different model instead of giving HE's the same one

Nightborne were differentiated by ten thousand years of separation and drinking from the Nightwell. Any stance and animation changes subtly enhance that differentiation, they are not the be all and end all of all differences.

Stance and Animation are behavioral, not biological. That's the point.

Not really. Void Elves were moved as far thematically from Blood Elves, a light based race to a shadow based race, as possible. Similarly Nightborne were moved as far thematically from Night Elves, a Druidic race who lives in the woods to an Arcane race who lives in a city, as possible. Both groups were granted unique cultures, themes and aesthetics to justify their presence as an Allied race that would not step on the toes of the Blood Elves or Night Elves. Was I keen for the models to be shared? Nope, I would have preferred them to remain faction specific. But that's part of the compromise represented by Void Elves, we lost a monopoly on the model but we still keep a monopoly on the theme, aesthetics and culture of High Elves as portrayed by the Blood Elves.

And then we end up back at the issue of why not giving the thematic of VE to the Alliance High Elves in the first place. Cause again, if the point is to arbitrarily create distinct thematics, they could have done that with Alliance High Elves. More so, we are back at your inability to see High Elves focused on a different thematic than Blood Elves, because again, if it works for Void Elves out of nowhere for you, then why it couldn't work with High Elves?

Because again, If VE's were made out of High Elves with their background, I wouldn't mind being purple.

The gold standard as I said is that if a Blood Elf can imitate any of the suggested changes, it is not enough. None of the changes suggested are beyond being replicated by a Blood Elf.

Tattoos can be replicated. Hairstyles can be replicated. Everything can be replicated in every single one of these suggestions.

The worst thing is that it undermines Blood Elf integrity simply by being labelled 'high elf'. Once again, Blood Elves are High Elves. Everything a Blood Elf is therefore is by definition High Elf. Once you have a playable race called 'high elf' then they become the true High Elves by virtue of the moniker alone and are able to redefine the concept. That is fundamentally unfair to what Blood Elves are, which is High Elves. Alliance players cannot be permitted to appropriate and redefine the culture of a core Horde race, which is what I mean when I talk about Blood Elf integrity.

And now you are tripping over semantics. "You can't use the name High Elf because even when we don't use it anymore and haven't for the last 12 years, and while you still use it, it infringes on our identity" That is far form a rational argument.

And yet, fine, let's call High Elves something else to not hurt those feelings. Cause guess what, the name is not relevant -or accurate as Elisande says- and neither is the model. It is the story of Alliance High Elves what people want.

And Alliance High Elves are still culturally Blood Elves, as shown by their use of thalassian titles and connection to the Sunwell. The Alliance fantasy is being what is a Blood Elf within the Alliance. That is not justifiable in terms of faction diversity and Blood Elf integrity.
Loyalty to the other faction is not sufficient justification to break the faction wall on those terms. Differentiation can not be justified on these terms.

To define a whole cultural viewpoint by a couple of commonalities is utterly limmited. The whole point of current HE culture is their struggle to mantain identity while going through assimilation, which on itself creates a new cultural viewpoint that is neither and influenced by both. Literal cultural evolution. Neither Human nor Thalassian, something in between, that can move somewhere else in time.

I personally believe the best solution to your issue is to agitate for Half Elves. They would have the space to be their own thing without triggering Horde players and could carry forward the legacy of the High Elves within the Alliance.

100% agree Half Elves are the better choice in every way as it fulfills what I am asking for. Yet I would also be content with just High Elves, so I support both ideas.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

Hey guys I got some good news, my uncle who works at nintendo, has told me that there is some upcoming updates from blizzard and there is a high probability of playable High Elves on the Alliance. Unfortunately it seems that they will have limited hair color and skin color options. Although they will have blue eyes it seems that leaving the horde has resulted in some unexpected side effects as they no longer have access to the sunwell they have learned to draw draw mana from a more unsavory source. In fact although they are technically still High Elves I think they may have gone through a cultural change as well so they might have to change their name. But don't worry under their armor and robes their skeletons should still be the same so it should satisfy that itch right? Right?

[Deleted]

Blood elf = high elf.

[Fyersing]

But none of what I said is objectively false. The Silver Covenant is a subset of militarized High Elves, they're not a High Elf nation that has pledged their peoples allegiance to the Alliance, they're a group of like minded individuals who are are aligned with the Alliance.

And if, "the Silver Covenant does not constitute a nation-state" was what you had said, this wouldn't be a point of contention. Instead, and let me quote you again, you said:

The High Elves have no faction, they're just groups of High Elves that are not Horde aligned, with many of them fighting on behalf of the Alliance. ie individuals choosing to group up and fight for a cause they believe in, not a centralized official overarching allegiance to a specific faction out of some military alliance.

The underlined portions are, as I stated before, objectively false. This isn't a matter of personal interpretation, or factional vantage -- the mere suggestion that High Elves are just this amalgamate mass of individuals, who are in no way, shape, for form attached to the Alliance in any official capacity flies in the face of not only their narrative (i.e. the one available only to Alliance characters), but also the Blood Elves (i.e. the one available only to the Horde, and wherein it is mentioned often and loudly that the High Elves are their enemies specifically because they're aligned with the Alliance).

The Silver Covenant is an on-again, off-again branch of the military of Dalaran; Dalaran is an on-again, off-again associate/provisional member of the Alliance (no different than Ironforge or Darnashus). I don't really see how you can make the case that they're not willingly attached to the Alliance, as an organization, when the entirety of their recent history revolves around violently disagreeing with allowing Blood Elves into Dalaran, a city they perceive as being theirs by right, and emphatically supporting aligning the entire city with the Alliance.

However, if you're going to present the Silver Covenant as THE High Elf faction, then you're correct. Vereesa is it's leader so it does have a somewhat "centralized" leader. I simply don't agree with that because the Silver Covenant is not High Elf exclusive.

You're going to have to come up with a source for me, because off the top of my head, I can't think of a single member of the Silver Covenant that isn't a High Elf. If you're trying to assert that because we haven't seen a member of the Silver Covenant that isn't a HE, that it's entirely plausible that one would exist in the future, you're very quickly approaching the point of logical fallacy.

Can you provide a source that says that the overwhelming majority of existing High Elves are part of the Silver Covenant? i'm not disagreeing, it would make sense, I just have not found any lore source that outright supports this. Everything I've seen is relatively ambiguous on numbers and just alludes to the remaining High Elves either being in the Silver Covenant, living in Stormwind, living in Dalaran, or in High Elf lodges around the world.

There isn't any single source to corroborate this notion, it's primarily informed by two things:

1) The absolute majority of all High Elf NPC's are aligned with the Silver Covenant. I've obviously not counted, but you can count the number of High Elf NPC's that aren't a part of the Silver Covenant on your hands (maybe one foot, as well), whereas there are literally hundreds upon hundreds of Silver Covenant NPC's at this point.

2) It is stated in the Warcraft Chronicle that there had been schism, with both social and political origins, developing between the High Elves living in Quel'thalas and the High Elves living in Dalaran (and to a lesser extent, Lordaeron) for centuries. It is this latter grouping which today comprises the vast majority of all modern High Elves, owing to the fact that they were far more concerned with helping their immediate allies (Lordaeron, and even Dalaran when it was temporarily sacked) instead of "returning" to a homeland that they'd been estranged from for so long that they likely didn't even remember it.

The point being that the recounting only deems it important to mention two specific groups, those High Elves living in/around Quel'thalas and those High Elves living in/around Dalaran. If there were other important groupings, with distinctive cultural proclivities, they likely would've been mentioned in any capacity.

Additionally, the Silver Covenant is implied to be composed of citizens from Dalaran. This is supported by the fact that the leadership of Dalaran has never once intoned that the Silver Covenant is in any way foreign to them. An important thing to note, because prior to the Warcraft Chronicle it was generally assumed by the playerbase that most/all of these High Elves living in/around Dalaran were slaughtered when the city fell -- which is why people came to conclude that Vereesa and all of her followers were one-time Blood Elves that had decided later that joining the Horde was a mistake. We now know, however, that Dalaran fell with almost zero casualties and virtually all of those resident High Elves not only survived, but fled to both Theramore and Stormwind before ultimately returning to Dalaran to assist in the rebuild.

The TL;DR being that if the Warcraft Chronicle deemed it worth mentioning that the High Elves were largely split into two camps, prior to the Sacking of Quel'thalas, and hints that the group domiciled in/around Dalaran were largely unaffected by the two calamitous events that are well-known to the playerbase (the fall of Dalaran, and the sacking of Quel'thalas). This alone presents modern High Elves in a light favorable to being made playable, but anybody trying to hand-wave away the concerns coming from Blood Elf players regarding an infringement upon their identity is a fool -- we're never going to get High Elves if they look even remotely like Blood Elves (and that is fine).

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How would you guys feel if they added the High Elf appearance to the Void Elf customization instead of having a completely new allied race?

(Not sure if this has been asked?)