Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Varodoc]

No, I don't mean making a backstory now, after the fact. I mean that they are lacking one, which is why they feel so empty lorewise. This means that we are in the process of creating that story, which we will watch play out (and which becomes the "backstory" from then on). So with a good amount of time and good writers Void Elves will come into their own.

There is a positive to this though, in that they are fresh and can be taken in a new storied path that doesn't require a deep lore reason to do so. They are unshackled from the lore requirements of other ARs/cores.

They "feel empty" lorewise because that's the point. They were a gang of researches exiled for years. They are not supposed to have a long or intricate backstory. They are not some ancient civilization that fought in a massive demon invasion.

The story they'll receive will not become their backstory, They already have one, though it is not so expanded upon. Regardless, the backstory they have serves its purpose of explaining why they ended up in that position.

[ravenmoon]

Vulpera are actually a pretty close second. But yeah, after this, I expect Void Elves to displace Night Elves as the top Alliance race, and to challenge Belves for the top racial spot overall.

I really hate elves.

Ah they wont top blood elves, the horde is the faction to be, people arent leaci g the horde just to play the same blood elf they have access to blue eyes but on the alliance. Nah

High elf customisation would eat at night elf and human numbers mainly, especially night elves. This is what happened when void elves became available. You didnt have guilds switching g to alliance to play them, just cha ging their night elf and human or dwarf to void elf

[cocomen2]

Great day, when blood elfs and void elfs got their blue eyes.... (just to make fun of high elf fans on ION part)SARCASM.

[ravenmoon]

Agreed. The only thing I'm leery of is the "later date" part. Historically, that later date never comes. Blizzard fully intends to add more customization later in the xpac, I'm sure, but this kind of thing is usually abandoned unless there is an outcry about broken promises.

Agreed to, however I think it is coming at the start of the expansion

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Really, they should change the names of some of the races on the character select screen. It should say Void Elf/High Elf. Trolls should include Sand Troll, Dwarves should include Wildhammer Dwarf.

It's an easy solve that wouldn't require changing the actual race name in-game. Just a simple nod to the player that the "race" is a wider grouping.

@Broflake Give templates with those names in character creation, it's the least they could do.

Farstriders and highborne while not races, are significant enough groups that can have r their own styles to warrant I clusion as templates in the nllod/void and night elf character creation screens

[kappalol]

Still no high elves. Just blood and void elves with blue eyes. All those people who say this is not about eye color will still be arguing they want the entire race with racials as high elves. And special high elves starting scenario.

You cant never do well with those people.

[Cathfaern]

I hope they include some additional hair styles for void elves with no tentacle and then I'm happy. If they also include some less "emo" hair styles for males I'm more happy. If they include some more light (not necessary blond) hairs I'm more happy than I could imagine

[ravenmoon]

I won't deny is not convoluted, but again, I do see the value in "condensing" some racial offshoots to the same "gameplay" race. Cause otherwise we have 6 playable elf races? Honestly I would do away with most AR this way tbh, we don't need that kind of bloat from a design perspective.

And if it defeats the purpose of VE's, kinda shows how misguided that purpose was from the beginning, at least to many people in the community and themselves as we can see.

I think this is exactly how the devs view it, all the allied races save for vulpera can be folded into the core races, with nightborne the other cross faction race getting the similar void elf treatment (I.e. getting night elf body sizes,skin tones and hair colours and vice versa) folding them in, with new allied races being actual races like Ogres or Saberon or hybrids like Mok'nathal, half elves & half orcs

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This didn't make me that happy to be honest, and I wanted High Elves since classic.

Still no access to paladin class. Still voidy shitty hairstyles. No blonde hair. Edgy voice over. And the worst offender - a racial that occasionally turns you into a purple blob.

If it makes most helfers happy then great, but this isn't what I personally wanted and my high elf needs weren't quenched. Honestly if I want to play the real high elf, base blood elf is still a better option for me.

I suspect this is the idea. The words compromise come to mind

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This sparked an interesting thought. What if they grouped races together, allowing you to pick what set of racials your character has and automatically selecting the matching race name.

For example, a dranei could pick the regular or light forged racials, (which also changes the race name). A Void Elf could pick to have their void form (with the void elf name) or change it to an arcane form (automatically selecting the high elf race name). Same for Tauren, etc...

I would be down with this, it would make sense and open options up.

This could still stay the same tho

[Ardenaso]

I don't really know where should I go when my questions here were ignored and when I asked them outside here it got reported like, what gives?

Anyway:

1. Since Blood Elves are High Elves and the only thing that differs is the political stance, why do people still claim the Purge of Dalaran was a racist motive and genocide when Jaina only teleported the Sunreavers into prison and the ones who did the actual killings were... the High Elves?

2. Why didn't the Silver Covenant and Argent Crusade High Elves even bothered to at least help cleanse the Ghostlands?

3. Now that Nathanos (and hopefully the Royal Apothecary too) are gone, is it finally time for the Highvale and the Quel'lithien survivors to rejoin the Blood Elves?

[ravenmoon]

I know, this is exactly what I'm planning to do - stick to my belf and turn his eyes blue. Which is a shame, but the best I'll be getting anyway.

They are doing this to lift the restriction on what you want to play as., you can now play your blood elf as a San'layn, fel elf,darkfallen or high elf if you want. They wont give you a new character creation.

What they can do is cha ge the opening narrative to include the new options, on the blood elf starting area, they can change some of the NOcs, to high elf, san'layn, dark fallen etc with those groups poke emotions so you arent hearing a high elf go "glory to the sin'dorei"

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You make your own lore for your character, just as Danuser explained. Thalassian Bob gave some examples of say Allerian Stronghold elves going back to Silvermoon.

Is that actually happening? Not from a game perspective, but from their own character's perspective? Yes.

actually yes, although you could say it is loreful and in game, it's just the changes arent reflected in the starting area, just like they never update old zines after major events happen

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I don't really know where should I go when my questions here were ignored and when I asked them outside here it got reported like, what gives?

Anyway:

1. Since Blood Elves are High Elves and the only thing that differs is the political stance, why do people still claim the Purge of Dalaran was a racist motive and genocide when Jaina only teleported the Sunreavers into prison and the ones who did the actual killings were... the High Elves?

2. Why didn't the Silver Covenant and Argent Crusade High Elves even bothered to at least help cleanse the Ghostlands?

3. Now that Nathanos (and hopefully the Royal Apothecary too) are gone, is it finally time for the Highvale and the Quel'lithien survivors to rejoin the Blood Elves?

1. Because those people are wrong, it was a faction motivated thing, a faction ist thing. However the real confusion is in the nomenclature of race, race is also used to refer to a different faction when enough distinction exists visually (like blue eyes and blue/gold colour theme in high elves) this is true for famous groups. In American English, the word race amongst humans doesnt mean a different species like it would in Europe, it is also applied to a different ethnic group. Us government asks humans there race having options like white, black, Hispanic oriental, but technically in English these arent races, they are ethnic groups - so when they accuse the of being racist it is actually being ethnically discriminatory. Russians can be racist towards Poles yet they are both cuacasion group of humans, different nationality and ethnicity, ethnicity is not limited to bigger variations like skin colour and eye shape, neither is race in America limited to different species context will determine what sense it is used.

As you are aware, they are the same race but just different factions. The high elves are a different group, but are the same races as the blood elves, whereas the void elves are a magically altered sub race of the bloood/high elf race, to avoid confusion, we usually refer to the race as thalassian, since using high or blood often now means faction

A similar thing is done for night elves, when all the night elves we knew were the same faction we used the race name night elf interchangeably with the faction The Night elves, but when blizz revealed there were other night elf factions like the Highborne in classic, Illidari too, then Moonguard, Dreamwardens, Nightborne in Legion we could no longer do som we refer to the wc3 group as Darnassians now, leaving night elf to refer to the race, altho people like the high elf /blood elf still confuse. Nightborne like void elves are magically altered sub race of night elves.

2. They were exiled by refusing g to change name and allegiance to sin'dorei, argent dawn was probably too occupied since Arthas was still going strong, kill Arthas and you solve the Quel'thalas undead issue. Silver Covenant hate the blood elves for betraying their original high elven values and further allying with the orcs and trolls, traditional enemies of the high elves.

3. Possible but it doesnt have to be. High elv remains it's own faction identity, they could ally with the blood elves as high elves though and while you could say they become sin'dorei, its unnecessary, I prefer the diversity, it's more realistic and can provide more interesting stories

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I think like most in his position, he just has to come up with whatever bullshit at the time he has to lmao.

Or he and the other devs decided to change their mind and stance on the whole thing , realising why not.

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Let's not take things out of context. Danuser explained that customization options could be used for such groups.
Void elves are not in the same vein because they are a singular group.
Let's not use his statements to begin headcanon, it spits on the lore that many claim to enjoy.

I am curious why you think what he said wouldnt apply to void elves? He seems to imply the character opening race narrative and starting experience would no longer technically apply if you decide your character is one of these other groups customisation is available for. Basically saying, you can play this groups technically now that we have given you the customisation, but we arent going to update the starting experiences to reflect every change because it's too much work. But its official now - you are x group if that is what you decide you are.



Why would it not be the case for void elves? The way I view it, your character could be a high elf if you choose or a void elf whose skin colour hasn't changed purple. Rscials do out you as a void elf currently, but I suspect again it is an update issue, they may adjust but likely wont .


They may decide to open up racials between races of the same group and allow you to choose your racial at character creation ..but I suspect this would only happen on some rsce combos.

Zandalari/darksoesr, voud elf/blood elf, night elf/nightborne, etc

[Ardenaso]

2. They were exiled by refusing g to change name and allegiance to sin'dorei, argent dawn was probably too occupied since Arthas was still going strong, kill Arthas and you solve the Quel'thalas undead issue. Silver Covenant hate the blood elves for betraying their original high elven values and further allying with the orcs and trolls, traditional enemies of the high elves.

I mean with Arthas gone; as of Three Sisters, the Ghostlands are still filled with undead and since the Argent Humans were doing a good job in making progress to restore Eastweald, why don't the Argent Blue Eyes do the same? You'd think they'd let the Blood Elves struggle on their own out of spite for being exiled

[ravenmoon]

I was never expecting anything about High Elves to come until 10.0.

It's clear they have greatly overhauled their character customization system, in a way that I think they'll be able to deliver new options at a much faster rate than before. Allied Races were the beginning of that, what is it 10 races in one expac when before it was 2?

Increased customizations are a further iteration of the system, and as we have seen with the news today. Opens up and allows them to add additional clans/tribes/subgroups of particular races into the mix without having to 'take up more slots'.

We may be in an era where character customization improvements come much quicker, especially since it was very 2006-2007 esque level of character customization for well over a decade.

I agree, this i think was the purpose. They have wanted to give more cusotmiastions for a long time, and I believe they want us to have more access to things like specific clans/groups and sections. e.g. Farstriders (Thalassian elves) could have a unique look, so can highborne (night elves), but this would be part of the general customisation.

What they need to do is find a way to let people know that x option is actually y group. BEst option I've seen is to introduce templates in character creation screen

e.g. on Night elves you can click Highborne template, Night warrior template, undead template (only avail on DK class), Illidari template (only avail on DH class and possible new warlock option for NElves), in void elves you can click High elf template, farstrider template, in Blood elf you can click Farstrider template, Darkfallen template, Illidari templace (only availbe on Demon hunter and warlock class)

[Ardenaso]

3. Possible but it doesnt have to be. High elv remains it's own faction identity, they could ally with the blood elves as high elves though and while you could say they become sin'dorei, its unnecessary, I prefer the diversity, it's more realistic and can provide more interesting stories

ack, I mean reconcile. I'm thinking the only thing preventing them from reconciling/rejoining was the Forsaken's aggressions and the Blood Elves' leniency to the Forsaken

[ravenmoon]

I mean with Arthas gone; as of Three Sisters, the Ghostlands are still filled with undead and since the Argent Humans were doing a good job in making progress to restore Eastweald, why don't the Argent Blue Eyes do the same? You'd think they'd let the Blood Elves struggle on their own out of spite for being exiled

They don't update the zones after major events.. they haven't updated TBC zones since TBC (they were excluded from the cata remake). This is also why you can now play other clans and groups despite the starting experience locked to the original core race faction you play, they are not going to update it for the new options.

Theoretically the new starting zone area is far broader, and not group/race specific, so while you can choose to start in the original zones of the race, lore wise you're starting in this new area.. it's similar to how a Nightborne or Lightforged can go levelling in cata zones when these groups technically weren't around then.

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ack, I mean reconcile. I'm thinking the only thing preventing them from reconciling/rejoining was the Forsaken's aggressions and the Blood Elves' leniency to them

I think reconciliation is possible, and what this opens up, is that you the player can decide you are a high elf that's reconciled with the blood elves, and you can play with them as a high elf who's changed to a sin'dorei or as a high elf that is now helping your people as a high elf.

Being high elf doens't mean you have to stay with the alliance. While some may view it that way, you may not, choosing to uphold your high elven ideals that your sin'dorei kin have abandoned, but workw tih them for your own motivations. Mycharacter could be trying to turn the sin'dorei back to their original values, or he could just be homesick and want to be with people who look like him, willing to put up with their changed values for the sake of unity.

I guess you decide now.

[Varodoc]

As I said to Obelisk Kai not long ago: “If you want to play a High Elf, the Horde and the Alliance is there waiting for you.”

Looks like we get the last laugh

It's sad that Obelisk Kai deleted his signature though.

Ironically that signature would now represent a rallying cry to never give up hope in Blizzard listening to the community and changing their mind (though it's not the message Obelisk intended to give with it ).

[ravenmoon]

I wonder if this will herald in the death knell to Quel'dorei as a race.

When the Ren'dorei (similar to Alleria) for all intents and purposes appear to be High Elves when not using their Void powers - and with the Sin'dorei regaining their pre-Burning Crusade appearances as well - what demand or relevance would there ever be for the actual High Elf remnants?

I think you mistake the point of these customisations. They are to allow you to play as whatever group you wanna be without labelling and desinging a starting experience that calls you out by that name.

So, if you select the attoo option on dwarves, you can be a wildhammer - which is what that is meant ot be, and like wise on void elves you can be a high elf even though character opening and starting zone may put you in the original caln/groups starting area.

When you think about it, we are getting a new starting area for new players, with only old players able to access the original starting zones if they want to do that instead. It would be like a void elf or lightforge is going through cata/wotlk/tbc zones when they weren't around in those times - this is already the case for worgen/goblins going through TBC/WotLK zones etc, Danuser explained this in his interview.

You could easily be a high elf or a void elf with pale peach hued skin - that choice is now yours.

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Makes the people wanting to deny High Elves look like there’s no good reason other than gaining satisfaction from denying others options that would end up benefitting their own existing options as well.

This is what it always was. This and "I want my group to remain the only beautiful and magical elves" - they feelthe better appearance, lore presentation and whole vibe than anyone else is their right and reward for rolling horde and being loyal, so they defend jealous alliance players from wantintg to "steal their model" or in the case of arguing agsint night elven highborne and cities "steal their identity" - which was always a load of rubbish. considering High elves were always on the alliance, and night elves were always greatly gifted with acane magic, had highborne from the start of hteir lore as well as a race nown to have had the greatest civilization amongst Azeroth native mortal races.

To then argue that alliance shouldn't get playable high elves, or night elves shouldn't be able to wield arcane, have highborn or cities - just smacks of vindictive behaviour and possessive jealousy - like they completely forgot that blizzard took the alliance high elves and gave them to the horde first, and that traditionally the alliance was the faction with arcane magic and civilization - so all of a sudden this has become the identity of the horde elves therefore night elves (cos they're alliance) can't have it visibly in game(even though they do in lore)?

It certainly isn't logical thinking. It's more ridiculous when you understand that Nightborne are night elves and blood elves are high elves. and the horde versions are all from the alliance races just being made on the horde and given the prettier stuff while the alliance ones are homeless or refugees. And they're quite fine with that - which in itself says a lot.

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Honestly I have already thought of that and I would love it tbh; there was a guy on reddit that made an "origins" concept so I envision it as something similar; different origins give you a specific set of customizations, and a unique tooltip tag, and more fun perhaps, different flavored racials, or a mostly shared selection with one unique passive and active.

Could be an interesting way of condensing AR and customization into one system.

Actually, that's a very good way of doing it. It would be pretty good if they did things like that.

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As I said to Obelisk Kai not long ago: “If you want to play a High Elf, the Horde and the Alliance is there waiting for you.”

Looks like we get the last laugh

It may feel good, but was it about getting the last laugh to you?

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I think it's obvious they were. Or like Fossil suggests, they most likely had planned High Elves for later and didn't want to spill the beans, coming out with VE first.

I was already saying back then that it most likely sounds more convincing to come out with something like Void Elves first, then come out later with High Elves. It's the same thing that happened with Dwarves, where Dark Iron came before Wildhammer.

I also think VE were a big mistake because, as I've said this before too, the High Elf request was never as organized/prevalent until Void Elves came out. They ignited the request, because the same statements made to apply against adding High Elves applied to Void Elves even more so. As I, and others (including Taliesin) were saying.

Thanks to the organization of people like @Traycor and @DeicideUH and others like those in the High Elf Discord, Official Forums, and elsewhere. We get to celebrate after just a few years.

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I was already saying very long ago that it will sound more convincing to your bosses to come out with something more different first, then add in that request that isn't that much different later.

I'm sure Obelisk Kai can attest to that as well as I kept telling him that and he would hit back with "well what would be the point of adding Void Elves in the first place". Which I've already answered above.

It's the same vein as Dark Irons and Wildhammer.

Who knows. .Personally I think they made void elves that way primarily to give something different. The motivation for void elves was because nightborne was the prize won for the horde, stealing it essentially from the night elves group it is historically part

and thus alliance predisposition. I genuinely feel the greater motivation for void elves appearing tha tway was to be more interesting, a lesser motivation might have been concern on having the exact same race appearance fully across the board. Which is why void elves went full purple.

I think customisation reality, as a natural progression because not all clans/groups need to bellied races, and it is in your interest to give a lot more cusotmisations, it became increasingly pointless, especially after void elves all decked in gear look mostly exactly like blood elves, to just open it up with that option anyway , seeing most people want and like that.

Effectively, the reason for keeping peach skin exclusive to the horde was redundant , always was, and made less sense with the skin tone variations boosted customisation would bring and why restrict eye colour to teal only?

At the end of the day, the argument was lost when Ion said if you want a pale skinned blond haired Thalassian elf, the horde is waiting for you, because the alliance fan base could counter easily, "so a purple skinned night elf is okay to be across both factions, but not a peach skinned blood elf?" It seriously reminded me of all the worse racism and white supremacy garbage, almost like a plae skinned blond haird aryan elf is exclusive an d only one faction can have it. ( I know this was not the case in Ion's mind or the intention of his words, but it certainly felt like that)

[protip]

Blue eyes for blood elves is a win for me, and I'm very happy about it. Fel taint was never a defining characteristic of blood elves in the lore, so it makes perfect sense for them to be able to appear as high elves do - mana tap is not supposed to affect eye color, and mana tap is what separates blood elves and high elves. That is, ignoring the reasonable option that a high elf would've returned to Silvermoon after the restoration of the Sunwell during BC. Maybe some people were using the eye color discussion for some other purpose, but this is an important distinction for me because it was the basis of blood elf lore when I started playing in BC. As far as I'm concerned, blue eyes for blood elves are a lore appropriate, very welcome, and long overdue option.

[ravenmoon]

Isn't it funny that now @Obelisk Kai is saying that Void elves aren't High elves?

Wasn't it that Void elves were Blood elves that were High elves and all that twisted logic?

You know, it all doesn't count now because he just was proven irrelevant and want to try to maintain people arguing about more and more useless points, trying to make them hold some kind of grudge so he can maintain some sense of dignity. And, of course, his pride is too strong to accept he has never been right about being so contrary to the request.

People can now play High elves, just accept it. Maybe it's not as complete as some of us would have wanted it, nothing that can't be fixed, but now players can confidently create a character and tell to the world that it is a High elf, their High elf.

Hah, and what's funny tho is that now people can't simply give a damn about the blue eyes, since it was never such an issue, people contrary to the High elf request made it to be, as many other things, the antagonizing behavior from the contrary has been so toxic it's just like this is an act of retribution, and I hope this is also an opportunity for those people to reconsider the way they treated the request and the people that held it. Make it be a valuable lesson and drop your silly pride and ego.

This is it, this is the moment all of you stop thinking you have some kind of high ground, as if you ever had it in the first place, and start to grow some empathy towards other people.

Finally, players can play High elves. And, maybe some day, Blizzard revisits it and make them even more complete.

But don't forget that: Players can now properly play High elves, in the Alliance.

One word, entitled. That entitled attitude is what has falred up these elf wars conflict - it's exactly the same with night elves, highborne, Nightborne, night elf arcane magic, cities etc - one group feels entitled to them and therefore pushes it as their legacy, but that was never the case. Never. - and they should have known this when the high elves, originally an alliance race was taken over to the horde, blizzard was willing to share. With wow came druids crossing faction, mages and the arcane also going over to the horde, warlocks to the alliance, later followed by blood elves to th horde, paladins to horde, shaman to alliance, then we got night elves going to the horde.

Alliance high elves were always loreful, so were arcane wielding night elves, night elven cities - all that stuff is already in the lore but because game didn't show or give access straight away tehse arguments have taken on a life of their own, morphed out of shape by player selfish motivations.

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It's just a forum. Chill out.

You my friend are either very spirtiual or have just had a joint. Good advise nonetheless

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You can basically look at it in one of two ways.

1. High Elves <=> Blood Elves <=> Void Elves <=> High Elves and so on.

2. High Elves =/= Blood Elves =/= Void Elves =/= High Elves and so on.

Blizzard themselves go with Option 1 in most cases. Saying that these elven cultures are fundamentally one and the same, with the main split being political and/or philosophical.

Personally - I used to think Void Elves were the odd ones out. That their level of physical changes set them apart from from the other two elven groups, but those mutations are being sort of reverted in Shadowlands. So in my books, High Elves have been playable since TBC. This announcement is just cements that for the Horde - and introduces it to the Alliance in all but name now that the Void element is made semi-optional rather than mandatory to their race.

It's the same with Night elves, Highborne, Nightborne

Like void elves, nightborne are magically modified night elves. blizzard altered their ears slightly in addition to thinning down the night elf frame when they gave them. but then ALl sub races are core races with a few mdoifications, usually 1 or 2 main ones.

However most of these are also different factions, it's jsut that some of these factions have distinctive appearance differenecs blizzard likes to give to make it feel new and different when doing a new expansion area.

But they are essentially the same race.. just view them as a differnt nation. It's exactly the same wtih Tauren, Taunka, Yaungol and Highmountain.

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I am so happy, like, when the blue eyes were first datamined, it made me smile so hard, lol, i finally could make this high elf toon background story, of finally returning to Quel'thalas, with the new political ways of the Horde, with no warchief at all. Really put a smile on my face.

Then Ion came, and like the C&C Ion Cannon, destroyed the happiness i had, when he said the datamined blue eyes were for NPC only.

But with todays news, making it official, im like, tears of joy, haha, i know how silly this sound, but idk, im trully happy that blue eyes and having the option to RP a high elf will be a thing, on either side.

So yeah, it's happening, cheers!

I'm always glad to see someone happy, but I these days prefer to pin my happiness on more substantial things than the fortunes of a football club or the whhims of a game designer. And it really helped.

[Oswen]

I see it as Blizzard declaring "High Elves" as a soon to be extinct parent race with Blood and Void elves being its divergent evolutionary branches with the first going further into the Holy Sunwell theme while the other is all about void and shadow.

If I could take a guess "Alliance" High Elves are set to disappear soon with Blizzard eliminating the root of the problem by making them go back to Silvermoon since the war is over or follow Alleria with nothing else in between, did anyone say timeskip after Shadowlands?
I wonder what may happen to Vereesa in such scenario though.

[DeicideUH]

You know something tho? I am happy with this, but, something feels off...

These feel kinda rushed -as per the clarification VE's will retain their underwear- if you look at these, they are very simple texture swaps that anyone can do really easily and fast...

This is not about this being a lie, but, what if the reason these dropped so suddenly, it's because bad news are incomming? But they'll go, hey, remember when you got Helves? that was fun!

or is this just paranoia?

I think next build will come with the blood elf options enabled, and that means blue eyes.
From the images, the void elf skins are not ready, that's why they just used belf skins.

So, to avoid forum implosion, Blizzard decided to announce it first.

[Monster Hunter]

Doesn't matter. You were wrong. Blizzard no longer cares about Alliance players having access to a model identical to blood elves!!!

--- snip ---

a Fiero looks like a ferrari.

its still a Pontiac though.