Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Manariel]

This is the kind of additional customizations that would suit void elves, allowing them to develop as their own thing rather than trying to turn them into ersatz high elves.

Yes, of course. That way, we'll remain with the exact same faces/hairs/skintones than we have today. I get it, BE fans are so focused on the outward appearance of their faciton of thalassian Elves that they can't stand the idea of any other race looking like their own, even when it makes sense.

But sure. Add monstrous appearances to the Void Elves that nobody will use because they are uttelry ugly and just break the whole Alliance aesthetic more than anything else. Meanwhile, I guess the Horde will get a dozen or so new different skins for his Mag'hars ?

[Obelisk Kai]

What I ask is why they would even bother if they are just going to use the same model.

Because the request for high elves for the alliance was pretty insistent proving the demand was there BUT that their internal red lines regarding faction diversity meant they had to differentiate the thalassian elves the alliance was getting enough to be distinct but not too much lost it be unrecognisable as an elf. All they really did was turn a high elf blue and only a small group of vocal players seemingly refuse to accept getting a near duplicate of the model. They want an actual duplicate.

Most people seem to have taken the win given the status of void elves as the most popular allied race

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, of course. That way, we'll remain with the exact same faces/hairs/skintones than we have today. I get it, BE fans are so focused on the outward appearance of their faciton of thalassian Elves that they can't stand the idea of any other race looking like their own, even when it makes sense.

But sure. Add monstrous appearances to the Void Elves that nobody will use because they are uttelry ugly and just break the whole Alliance aesthetic more than anything else. Meanwhile, I guess the Horde will get a dozen or so new different skins for his Mag'hars ?

Void elves use forces which canonically produce monstrous appearances. Plenty of demon hunter players have taken the monstrous customizations open to them as they wish to lean into the fantasy. Offering void elves the opportunity to have more monstrous options, something which fits perfectly with their theme, would be a logical outcome of them getting expanded customization options. And any Void elf player put off by these options could simply choose not to use them and instead run around as they are now as blue high elves.

- - - Updated - - -

I preface by saying that we are on the same side of the argument and I agree with you that the blood elves are technically WoW's playable high elves and fulfil that role perfectly adequately. On top of this, I think it's also worth remarking that, at this point, Silvermoon has participated actively in the Horde for such a length of time as to match or even surpass their active membership in the Alliance of Lordaeron which really only consisted of their (reluctant) involvement in the Second War. So, I believe that people saying that the "high elves" are a core Alliance race are wrong. Many high elves were prominent and important figures within the Alliance as individuals, but Quel'Thalas as a whole was never particularly fond of the organisation and saw it as more of a burden than a boon.

Having said all that, I believe the blood elf heritage armour quest line reveals the blood elven leadership's thinking on their racial status:



The phoenix, with its cycles of death and rebirth, is an animal with profound cultural significance to the Sin'dorei and I think Liadrin's words here reveal that the blood elves see the high elves - who they were - as dead. A people who they were but no longer are. When their old world was unmade by Arthas' monstrous attack the Quel'Thalas of the Quel'dorei was burned to cinders, but from the ashes, like a phoenix a new people arose - the Sin'dorei.

I think another reflection of this detachment from their high elven past is Lor'themar's continued resistance to the notion of founding a new royal dynasty and making himself the new king of Quel'Thalas. Kael'thas declared that his father was the last king of the high elves and the regent lord shows no signs of going against the prince's wishes on this and, as far as we know, most of the blood elven populace seems satisfied with this arrangement.

I think the blood elves see themselves as a new people and when they see their Quel'dorei kin clinging on to their old identity, I think they probably pity them. At least partially (when they're not murderously purging them from Dalaran).

The issue is that by representing the overwhelming majority of their population and having possession of the lands and government of the thalassian elves the lawful king redefined what it is to be a high elf. That is a Blood Elf. The moment he did that, anyone who clung to the term high elf was making a political point. Blood elves are high elves. But the term high elf itself no longer means what it used to mean. It would be as if the term human was replaced by something else and then a tiny,fringe political party called the human party popped up.

[Maxilian]

Yes, of course. That way, we'll remain with the exact same faces/hairs/skintones than we have today. I get it, BE fans are so focused on the outward appearance of their faciton of thalassian Elves that they can't stand the idea of any other race looking like their own, even when it makes sense.

But sure. Add monstrous appearances to the Void Elves that nobody will use because they are uttelry ugly and just break the whole Alliance aesthetic more than anything else. Meanwhile, I guess the Horde will get a dozen or so new different skins for his Mag'hars ?

Lets be fair, it would be better for the race as a whole to get unique costumization options, instead of being BE 2.0, that way the race can slowly but surely start becoming their own thing, and not just a mix-match between BE + HE + Void

[Thalassian Bob]

The issue is that by representing the overwhelming majority of their population and having possession of the lands and government of the thalassian elves the lawful king redefined what it is to be a high elf. That is a Blood Elf. The moment he did that, anyone who clung to the term high elf was making a political point. Blood elves are high elves. But the term high elf itself no longer means what it used to mean. It would be as if the term human was replaced by something else and then a tiny,fringe political party called the human party popped up.

Absolutely, blood elves are the main inheritors to the Thalassian legacy. The remaining "high elves" are like tsarist Russians in exile after the establishment of the Soviet Union, ghosts of an old world whose story has run out.

[Obelisk Kai]

Absolutely, blood elves are the main inheritors to the Thalassian legacy. The remaining "high elves" are like tsarist Russians in exile after the establishment of the Soviet Union, ghosts of an old world whose story has run out.

Precisely. This is why terminology is pointless. The high elves have renamed themselves as blood elves and those who argue high elves are a distinct race are arguing over an adjective. I'd wager the only reason chris metzen renamed them for the rise of the blood elves campaign in wc3 is that he thought it sounded cooler. If blood elves were still called high elves would we even be having this argument?

[Kemsa]

People want their Lord of the Rings on World of Warcraft, thats the ultimate reason.
They ignored completly 25 years of Lore that changed from being part of the Lordaeron Alliance, to ended up joining the Legion, getting separated and joining the Horde, fighting their own breathen being used as Slaves and meat shields and getting their hands dirty from both parts (garrosh/Garithos/Jaina)
To finally reach a point where, every elf was accepted on the Sunwell to do its pilgrimage, being Alliance, or Horde, or neutral.
Up until the void elves.

Probably, if the story goes forward... i can see those void elves cults in the corners of Stormwind (go look arround how those guys are "converting" people) making that the remaining "Alliance Elves" turn into Void powers, or seeking refugee on Silvermoon.
I even see some "void elves" leaving Silvermoon in the most bizarre way when you exit the Shepherd Gate

Lets see what Shadowlands will do to this megathread. Cant wait.

[Thalassian Bob]

Precisely. This is why terminology is pointless. The high elves have renamed themselves as blood elves and those who argue high elves are a distinct race are arguing over an adjective. I'd wager the only reason chris metzen renamed them for the rise of the blood elves campaign in wc3 is that he thought it sounded cooler. If blood elves were still called high elves would we even be having this argument?

That was very likely Metzen's thinking. I imagine that there'd still be people asking for an Alliance-specific faction of playable high elves, but the demand would probably be a lot smaller. If Blizzard would just stop adding the odd high elf here and there to Alliance hubs, people's passion might finally start to fade. But, they had to add two to fairly visible ones to Boralus...

People want their Lord of the Rings on World of Warcraft, thats the ultimate reason.
They ignored completly 25 years of Lore that changed from being part of the Lordaeron Alliance, to ended up joining the Legion, getting separated and joining the Horde, fighting their own breathen being used as Slaves and meat shields and getting their hands dirty from both parts (garrosh/Garithos/Jaina)
To finally reach a point where, every elf was accepted on the Sunwell to do its pilgrimage, being Alliance, or Horde, or neutral.
Up until the void elves.

Probably, if the story goes forward... i can see those void elves cults in the corners of Stormwind (go look arround how those guys are "converting" people) making that the remaining "Alliance Elves" turn into Void powers, or seeking refugee on Silvermoon.
I even see some "void elves" leaving Silvermoon in the most bizarre way when you exit the Shepherd Gate

Lets see what Shadowlands will do to this megathread. Cant wait.

I wish Blizz would add a couple of named Silver Covenant NPCs to the void elves ranks or maybe one of the named Allerian Stronghold elves, then people might be more accepting of void elves being the continuation of the Alliance-aligned Thalassians' story.

[Kemsa]

That was very likely Metzen's thinking. I imagine that there'd still be people asking for an Alliance-specific faction of playable high elves, but the demand would probably be a lot smaller. If Blizzard would just stop adding the odd high elf here and there to Alliance hubs, people's passion might finally start to fade. But, they had to add two to fairly visible ones to Boralus...

I wish Blizz would add a couple of named Silver Covenant NPCs to the void elves ranks or maybe one of the named Allerian Stronghold elves, then people might be more accepting of void elves being the continuation of the Alliance-aligned Thalassians' story.

Yeah, Blizz goffed by adding High Elves to the faction just as npcs to give "flavor" or a more "alive" world, but ended creating a freaking paradox. Sometimes i wonder how well the Blood Elves could have been on the Alliance at the start of TBC.

But i agee, if they start creating new Helves turning into Void Elves, their story would be more "compeling" as a "progression" race.

[FlubberPuddy]

People want their Lord of the Rings on World of Warcraft, thats the ultimate reason.

Alliance were basically designed to be the LotR faction so this seems unsurprising that fans of the faction want it more like that. Pretty sure even developers who play Alliance like it that way.

Given that every AR given to the Alliance has stayed a human/elf/dwarf/gnome/draenei (aka tiefling) or other common fantasy creature just kinda drives the point home for what the Alliance faction's theme is: LotR basically (obviously with small twists).

- - - Updated - - -

That was very likely Metzen's thinking. I imagine that there'd still be people asking for an Alliance-specific faction of playable high elves, but the demand would probably be a lot smaller. If Blizzard would just stop adding the odd high elf here and there to Alliance hubs, people's passion might finally start to fade. But, they had to add two to fairly visible ones to Boralus...

And then continued to add High Elven vehicles for the War Campaign ending as well. Lol, I'm pretty sure the developers enjoy the tease.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

That was very likely Metzen's thinking. I imagine that there'd still be people asking for an Alliance-specific faction of playable high elves, but the demand would probably be a lot smaller. If Blizzard would just stop adding the odd high elf here and there to Alliance hubs, people's passion might finally start to fade. But, they had to add two to fairly visible ones to Boralus...

Personally I don't think the name itself is the issue, but the persistence of Alliance High Elves. If Blood Elves had never changed their name and remained High Elves, the problem would still be that there are presently both Horde and Alliance High Elves. I do wonder that if they didn't change their name would have made the developers more reticent to adding Alliance High Elves so freely.

But we can even conceive a whole different meta of the discussion if BE's never got rebranded with the onus being put on how High Elves, by belonging two both factions are ostensibly neutral, which would have perhaps being even more contentious.

I wish Blizz would add a couple of named Silver Covenant NPCs to the void elves ranks or maybe one of the named Allerian Stronghold elves, then people might be more accepting of void elves being the continuation of the Alliance-aligned Thalassians' story.

There were so many opportunities during BfA to fold the High Elves into the Void Elves passively, and several ways where they could have made it a narrative with all the void content of BfA, specially Stormsong Valley. This is also related to the Void Elves lack of development compared to other races, because they needed the development as a group and not just a sojourn with Umbric, and it would have also given the alliance a leveling experience with more variety than just humans.

We could have had less Quilboar and instead a questline surrounding the Void Elves helping the Storm's Wake, which could have also doubled as the SC folding into them during it -not to mention of the possibility of setting up High Elves in Kul Tiras as per the RPG, and use them to draw a connection to the Void, Umbric studies, the Silver Covenant and Jaina-

[Chain Chungus]

What is weird is that Kael'thas was the bad guy of TBC, yet him being fucked over by Garithos somehow meant that all of Quel'thalas suddenly leaves the Alliance? Kael'thas was their enemy too, why would they care what happened to him? The Scryers even abandoned him as he gave himself over to demonic forces.

Plothole city. They had to be shoehorned in because the faction of monsters must start looking pretty like the Alliance, I guess? Being monsters was their appeal.

[Obelisk Kai]

What is weird is that Kael'thas was the bad guy of TBC, yet him being fucked over by Garithos somehow meant that all of Quel'thalas suddenly leaves the Alliance? Kael'thas was their enemy too, why would they care what happened to him? The Scryers even abandoned him as he gave himself over to demonic forces.

Plothole city. They had to be shoehorned in because the faction of monsters must start looking pretty like the Alliance, I guess? Being monsters was their appeal.

The Alliance was in disarray. The majority of its remaining members had been destroyed and stormwind and ironforge were too far away to offer effective support. Garithos was leading an army of survivors but he was a terrible racist.

Karl had the right to remove QT from the alliance for the same reason he was able to rename the high elves as the blood elves. He was the lawful prince of his people at the time. His fall, detailed in chronicles vol.3, is not a plot hole. Something is not a plot hole if the explanation exists and you were unaware of it.

- - - Updated - - -

That was very likely Metzen's thinking. I imagine that there'd still be people asking for an Alliance-specific faction of playable high elves, but the demand would probably be a lot smaller. If Blizzard would just stop adding the odd high elf here and there to Alliance hubs, people's passion might finally start to fade. But, they had to add two to fairly visible ones to Boralus...



I wish Blizz would add a couple of named Silver Covenant NPCs to the void elves ranks or maybe one of the named Allerian Stronghold elves, then people might be more accepting of void elves being the continuation of the Alliance-aligned Thalassians' story.

That there are a few high elves with a alignment to the Alliance left is merely a reflection of the story.And it is more than plausible to roleplay your void elf as a SC high elf who has now embraced the void.

But Void elves are it. They are a better foil for the blood elves than the high elf exiles were and they are the high elves of the Alliance now. They have their own destiny for players to follow.

[Aldo Hawk]

It's amazing to see people time and time again willingly ignoring the fact that High elves are a thing within the Alliance regardless Blood elf's existence while stomping their feet screaming 'Factions are important!'.

If factions are so important, then what is the problem with having the other faction have the option to play as one of their members? Aren't factions important? Is the Horde more important than the Alliance? I don't think so.

This is asking for High elves, which one of their traits is not being Blood elves, and therefore not being Horde, it is a straightforward thing when presented with a faction based game. But yeah, suddenly Pandaren are not that big of a deal except they are a 1:1 copy between both factions instead of what High elves could be if they were made playable. Everyone whines at High elves while already having Pandaren, how amazing isn't it?

[delus]

Lets be fair, it would be better for the race as a whole to get unique costumization options, instead of being BE 2.0, that way the race can slowly but surely start becoming their own thing, and not just a mix-match between BE + HE + Void

Blood elves should get felblood or lightbound customization instead.

[Thalassian Bob]

And then continued to add High Elven vehicles for the War Campaign ending as well. Lol, I'm pretty sure the developers enjoy the tease.

I think they do! lol

Personally I don't think the name itself is the issue, but the persistence of Alliance High Elves. If Blood Elves had never changed their name and remained High Elves, the problem would still be that there are presently both Horde and Alliance High Elves. I do wonder that if they didn't change their name would have made the developers more reticent to adding Alliance High Elves so freely.

But we can even conceive a whole different meta of the discussion if BE's never got rebranded with the onus being put on how High Elves, by belonging two both factions are ostensibly neutral, which would have perhaps being even more contentious.



There were so many opportunities during BfA to fold the High Elves into the Void Elves passively, and several ways where they could have made it a narrative with all the void content of BfA, specially Stormsong Valley. This is also related to the Void Elves lack of development compared to other races, because they needed the development as a group and not just a sojourn with Umbric, and it would have also given the alliance a leveling experience with more variety than just humans.

We could have had less Quilboar and instead a questline surrounding the Void Elves helping the Storm's Wake, which could have also doubled as the SC folding into them during it -not to mention of the possibility of setting up High Elves in Kul Tiras as per the RPG, and use them to draw a connection to the Void, Umbric studies, the Silver Covenant and Jaina-

Excellent points, dude. Blizzard wasted a lot of opportunities. The Silver Covenant could have evolved beyond just being the salty Ken to the blood elves Ryu and helped move the void elf story forward.

[FlubberPuddy]

Lets be fair, it would be better for the race as a whole to get unique costumization options, instead of being BE 2.0, that way the race can slowly but surely start becoming their own thing, and not just a mix-match between BE + HE + Void

Hence most of the art in the OP of this thread and the countless High Elf threads has been a more rustic/wild/Alleria like divergence in style. Kind of like how Nightborne share the same regal themes in society/appearances/culture like the Blood Elves effectively being a mirror to each other that reflects Night and Day.

The Alliance High Elf aesthetic, following Alleria/Night Elf like style becomes that kind of mirror too for the Alliance.

inb4 "But the farstriders!" uh yeah they're there but Blood Elf society as a whole doesn't depict that and drives home how regal Blood Elves are. Same for Night Elves, despite having Highborne among their ranks and the Priestesses of the Moon being very regal in their appearances, they're still defined by their 'wild nature' aesthetics.

Of course, with the upcoming customizations coming to the original races we'll have to wait and see if Blizzard is already in the works of shoring up these sorts of customizations or not.

Will we see more farstrider aesthetic to Blood Elves? Will we see more Highborne aesthetic come to Night Elves? That remains to be seen.

[bdlovelace]

The Alliance High Elf aesthetic, following Alleria/Night Elf like style becomes that kind of mirror too for the Alliance.

inb4 "But the farstriders!" uh yeah they're there but Blood Elf society as a whole doesn't depict that and drives home how regal Blood Elves are.

you could say the same thing for dalarans SC. neither group looks like alleria because of artistic laziness/limited resources. the farstriders are usually depicted in t5 hunter gear, although recently in nazjatar blood elf rangers are wearing the red nighthold tier gear. its funny though you try to claim a farstrider aesthetic for the alliance, i mean that is where alleria got the look from. you know, because she was a farstrider. it has nothing to do with alliance

cant wait til blood elves get farstrider tats finally so this cant be used anymore as an argument for copying blood elves to the alliance, not that a tattoo would have ever been good enough for that

[FlubberPuddy]

you could say the same thing for dalarans SC. neither group looks like alleria because of artistic laziness/limited resources. the farstriders are usually depicted in t5 hunter gear, although recently in nazjatar blood elf rangers are wearing the red nighthold tier gear. its funny though you try to claim a farstrider aesthetic for the alliance, i mean that is where alleria got the look from. you know, because she was a farstrider. it has nothing to do with alliance

cant wait til blood elves get farstrider tats finally so this cant be used anymore as an argument for copying blood elves to the alliance, not that a tattoo would have ever been good enough for that

I think it's funny your entire post focuses on SC when I never talked about them, just Alliance High Elves in general.

Another funny thing is I don't see what armor has to do with war paint on your face and feathers in your hair, you know the actual things specific to Alleria's person that makes her look like a High Elf and not a Blood Elf.

Armor doesn't have anything to do with character customization options.

But keep on proving my earlier opinions about your posts.

Again, even Ion used her as an example of a High Elf, showing that it's very easy to understand just by looks what's more a High Elf as opposed to a Blood Elf. He wouldn't refer to her as an example of that if she wasn't.

Btw, looking back to it, let me just reiterate that Blizzard says whatever they want in the moment so as to "never look wrong".

"So, Blood Elves kind of are High Elves with different eye colors and backstory in terms of their relationship to magic in the Sunwell. But if you want to be a fair-skinned, light, blonde-haired, tall, majestic, elf...that is a Blood Elf.

Giving that race directly to the Alliance would have blurred a lot of the lines between the two factions, but also there isn't a clear example of who or what High Elves are as a larger group which remains in Azeroth. There's a couple...we just met Alleria again...but they're not out there in the same way."

In Ion's Q/A spiel he immediately starts by trying to explain how Blood Elves kind of are High Elves.

Then in the very next few sentences he's like "uh there isn't a clear example of who or what High Elves are as a larger group". Oh really? But I thought you just said literally seconds ago that Blood Elves are that? Guess not.

Oh look at the example he uses, "we just met Alleria" "but they're not out there in the same way" oh ok so High Elves aren't out there, because Blood Elves certainly are.

This is why the answer he gave on that day was criticized by so many wow media community higher ups. It's just blatant how the response was catered toward, "what do we see to stop having them ask so frequently right now".

[FossilFree]

I think it's funny your entire post focuses on SC when I never talked about them, just Alliance High Elves in general.

Another funny thing is I don't see what armor has to do with war paint on your face and feathers in your hair, you know the actual things specific to Alleria's person that makes her look like a High Elf and not a Blood Elf.

Armor doesn't have anything to do with character customization options.

But keep on proving my earlier opinions about your posts.

Again, even Ion used her as an example of a High Elf, showing that it's very easy to understand just by looks what's more a High Elf as opposed to a Blood Elf. He wouldn't refer to her as an example of that if she wasn't.

Btw, looking back to it, let me just reiterate that Blizzard says whatever they want in the moment so as to "never look wrong".

"So, Blood Elves kind of are High Elves with different eye colors and backstory in terms of their relationship to magic in the Sunwell. But if you want to be a fair-skinned, light, blonde-haired, tall, majestic, elf...that is a Blood Elf.

Giving that race directly to the Alliance would have blurred a lot of the lines between the two factions, but also there isn't a clear example of who or what High Elves are as a larger group which remains in Azeroth. There's a couple...we just met Alleria again...but they're not out there in the same way."

In Ion's Q/A spiel he immediately starts by trying to explain how Blood Elves kind of are High Elves.

Then in the very next few sentences he's like "uh there isn't a clear example of who or what High Elves are as a larger group". Oh really? But I thought you just said literally seconds ago that Blood Elves are that? Guess not.

Oh look at the example he uses, "we just met Alleria" "but they're not out there in the same way" oh ok so High Elves aren't out there, because Blood Elves certainly are.

This is why the answer he gave on that day was criticized by so many wow media community higher ups. It's just blatant how the response was catered toward, "what do we see to stop having them ask so frequently right now".

You can really see his lawyer background in that statement.

[Thalassian Bob]

That there are a few high elves with a alignment to the Alliance left is merely a reflection of the story.And it is more than plausible to roleplay your void elf as a SC high elf who has now embraced the void.

But Void elves are it. They are a better foil for the blood elves than the high elf exiles were and they are the high elves of the Alliance now. They have their own destiny for players to follow.

For sure. That's the headcanon for my VE (cos sometimes it's fun to play the villain! ). Though I prefer to think he left Silvermoon because of their new tolerance of orcs and trolls, rather than some ridiculous adherence to an arcano-vegan lifestyle.



I think high elves appearing in Telogrus Rift and high elf sorceresses walking around Stormwind with void elves gives one more than enough to read between the lines to facilitate this.